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Lord of the Sabbath

- What really is the significance of Sabbath that God gave it as an “eternal sign” for His chosen people?

- God imposes death penalty for its violation, like the man caught gathering sticks on the Sabbath. How is the penal provision executed?

- What did Jesus mean in saying, “I am the Lord of the Sabbath?”

 

Mar 19, 2002

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Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives

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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 18, 2006 10:58:56 PM
  My very best friend Aida,   It is an honor if you will give me a visit best friend. Anytime, just tell me the time and place. But I do tell you in advance that I have no limousine nor Lexus to fetch you. If you can take caleza, I will hire one to fetch you and your husband by the time you will make the said visit. You didn't answer my query to you if you are related to brother Almario Cortez.   You know best friend, with your post today, I do remember Dely Atay-atayan in John and Marsha. Being John, it seems that I've been missing this one for quite a long, long time of your rest. How are you doin today? Hope your fine and well. Smile ka naman dyan mare. As the yankees are saying "kool".   Reading a humble letter like this one is really accomodating to go on and on. I am sure I am still in the physical world and heaven is not yet the surrounding where I am in right now, am I right best friend? Bear with me if I was caught so easily in the mouse trap of brother Almario. This will further force me to pursue my calling to and relying solely to the Lord God to get me out of that trap of brother Almario. Will you help me get out of it best friend.   Yours truly,   Adlemi   PS   What do you want me to prepare to you when you come to visit me? Ube, macapuno, bibingka, puto bumbong, name it, we don't have it. O smile ka naman uli dyan. I'm just kidding. [b][i]aidatcortez &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]Adlemi, You know, if I or anyone of us here at the PC would answer the question of bro. Almario from the Bible, maybe 12hrs. is not sufficient for us to explain it fully. But look at you! in the blink of an eye, buong-buo, you have explained 2 Chronicles 7:14. Hindi mo ba nararamdaman na hinuhuli ka lang niya kung papano mo sasagutin ang kaniyang tanong? 2Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." You said we should depend on God about "revelations." Was it God's revelation to you that "His people" are the people of Israel? Wasn't it that it was them that crucified and nailed Him on the cross? Alam mo Adlemi, may pinagaralan ka naman kaya siguro, naiintindihan mo na hindi maganda yung kumbaga eh nakikipagusap ka sa mga tao na iba ang pananaw kesa sayo. Sinasakop mo na ang buong araw namin sa mga posts mo at kami ang nawawalan ng space dahil sayo, at nawawalan na tuloy kami ng oras na magaralan ng husto dahil naguguluhan kami sa mga sine share mo. Sabi mo, ang dapat ay dumiretso kami sa Dios. Ano ba sa palagay mo ang ginagawa namin? Sa pisikal mang buhay, hindi ba hindi maganda yung humahalo tayo sa usapan ng iba? Sana naman, maintindihan mo na hindi ka namin kailangan dito kasi hindi mo naiintindihan ang mga pinaguusapan namin. Kung sa palagay mo ang mga ipinahahayag mo ang tama at kami ay mali, nirerespeto namin ang opinyon mo pero sana naman, respektuhin mo rin naman at tanggapin na iba ang sa amin kaya useless na makipagaralan ka sa amin. Ayaw mo makinig sa amin at kami naman din ay hindi makikinig sayo kaya hindi ba mas maganda kung maghihiwalay tayo? At dahil sa Pc naman ito, hindi ba mas may karapatan na kami ang manatili dito? Sana huwag mo isali ang sa pisikal dito. Sabi mo nga best friend mo ako, pero sa espirituwal, hindi tayo siguro magtatagpo. Huwag mo na pangaraping maturuan kami kung iyon ang intensiyon mo para sa amin kasi sinisiguro ko sayo, hindi kami makikinig saiyo kaya sayang lang ang panahon mo. Sa palagay ko mataas ang pinagaralan mo kaya siguro naman, kaya mong abutin ang mga ipinararating ko saiyo. Maraming salamat, Adlemi. Magsulatan tayo araw-araw ng personal. ok? Thank you talaga sayo......Pag nagbakasyon kami bibisitahin ka namin sa bahay mo, pwede ba?.... [/quote]
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Steve
Joined Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 74
Location:Chicago

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Posted: Jan 21, 2006 2:02:59 AM
If we are what we are because of our own freewill, then why Romans 9:19-20 "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"
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sfchristian
Joined Nov 22, 2005
Posts: 14
Location:san francisco, california

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Posted: Jan 21, 2006 5:59:46 AM
Subject: postings
greetings from san francisco, california! i had read a lot of bible quotes on this discussion forum. but how can we be assured that they are a revelation from God and not anyone else's opinion? As we all know Satan himself quoted from the Bible and anyone can do the same. In Isaiah 28:10, we were given instructions by the Lord on how to read the Bible..."line upon line, here a little and there a little...." Does it mean that whatever Bible verses we read on this forum which is patterned by the Isaiah 28:10 instructions, are actually a revelation from the Lord ? Have we missed the following verse in Isa. 28:13 " .... [b]here a little and there a little, that they might go and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."[/b] Could it be that we are sometimes misled? Could it be that the aforementioned verse (Isa. 28:13) be a warning for all of us? This is just a question. I stand corrected.
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sfchristian
Joined Nov 22, 2005
Posts: 14
Location:san francisco, california

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Posted: Jan 21, 2006 6:07:21 AM
Subject: a question
from san francisco christian (sfchristian) i had read a lot of bible quotes on this discussion forum. but how can we be assured that they are a revelation from God and not anyone else's opinion? As we all know Satan himself quoted from the Bible and anyone can do the same. In Isaiah 28:10, we were given instructions by the Lord on how to read the Bible..."line upon line, here a little and there a little...." Does it mean that whatever Bible verses we read on this forum which is patterned by the Isaiah 28:10 instructions, are actually a revelation from the Lord ? Have we missed the following verse in Isa. 28:13 " .... here a little and there a little, that they might go and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." Could it be that we are sometimes misled? Could it be that the aforementioned verse (Isa. 28:13) be a warning for all of us? This is just a question. I stand corrected.
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 362

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Posted: Jan 21, 2006 6:12:19 AM
Good question sfchristian. [quote] From:  [i]"sfchristian" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:59:48 -0700[/i] [quote]greetings from san francisco, california! i had read a lot of bible quotes on this discussion forum. but how can we be assured that they are a revelation from God and not anyone else's opinion? As we all know Satan himself quoted from the Bible and anyone  can do the same. In Isaiah 28:10, we were given instructions by the Lord on how to read the Bible..."line upon line, here a little and there a little...."  Does it mean that whatever  Bible verses we read on this forum which is patterned by the Isaiah 28:10 instructions, are actually a revelation from the Lord ? Have we missed the following verse in Isa. 28:13 " .... here a little and there a little, that they might go and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." Could it be that we are sometimes misled? Could it be that the aforementioned verse (Isa. 28:13) be a warning for all of us?  This is just a question. I stand corrected. [/quote] [/quote]
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fil3232003
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 494

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Posted: Jan 21, 2006 11:06:00 AM
Yes, I also consider this a very good question. I believe revelations from God are distinguished from man’s, applying this rule of “precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little,” is when truth in its entirety is considered. Different doctrines, purportedly applying the rule, are exposed to be human doctrines only when they do not conform to the truth taken as a whole. We have seen the different doctrines of identifying Jesus Christ. I suppose the following should be considered in looking at the respective contention on this subject, both having supporting verses: 1. Foreknowledge of God (Truth) 2. Justice of God (Truth) 3. Lucifer into Satan (Truth). What is the cause? Verses below: 4. Perfect exaltation and glorification of God (Truth) 5. Is No. 4 not subject to No. 2, considering the cause? 4. Man’s role: There is? Or, there is none? Eze 28:2 “…Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God.” (Whose decision is Lucifer’s “Thine heart is lifted up…setting thine heart as the heart of God?” Eze 28:4 “With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures.” (Are gold and silver literal precious metals?) Eze 28:13 THOU HAST BEEN IN EDEN THE GARDEN OF GOD; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. How did Satan get all these possessions? Are they literal or spiritual?)
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 22, 2006 11:01:54 AM
[b]__________________________[/b] [b]i had read a lot of bible quotes on this discussion forum. but how can we be assured that they are a revelation from God and not anyone else's opinion?[/b] [b]__________________________[/b] [b][/b]  reading from the bible, we can read the many ways God did reveal to men His holy words at different ages and from generation to generation. what if you add these to your query above, how does God actually reveal in this forum bible explanation? who are those whom God have actually and already spoken to with respect to this revelation? how did God actually reveal Himself (identity) to those people in this forum who have been spoken to by Him in giving said revelation? 
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Steve
Joined Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 74
Location:Chicago

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Posted: Jan 24, 2006 2:05:37 AM
The Lord God seeks us out. Ezekiel 34:11-12 "For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day." He does it all!! We must take heed to the warning in Romans 10:3 "For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."
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almario1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 416

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Posted: Jan 24, 2006 6:34:27 AM
dear brethren, A current participant in the website is one of the stubborn advocates of this so-called personal and so direct audible conversation with GOD. After a relentless research, finally I came upon OneJack who is the originator of this alleged two-way communication with GOD doctrine. Below are but some of his numerous articles. By simple analysis they are just restatements of a text or passages from GOD's Word that He commanded to be written. And, worse the adulterations of the Truth in the Spiritual Word are so deceiving. Take note of the last sentence on paragraph 1 on how he adds and deducts in reference to the matthew 18:2 verse. 1. "Keep in your mind that with Me, nothing is impossible, hence, whatever you will ask which to you is impossible, but same will be for your goodness sake, I will not be selfish to you. I will not be selfish to what you are asking for. And keep in your mind that in My Church, no one among mankind will stand up to explain the holy scriptures or to guide people that they will be explaining and they will be acting being a pastor because in My Church, I Am the only Pastor who will stand up in front of you. [b]Keep in your mind that the two or three conversing about Myself without any debate, I Am in the midst of them."[/b] [b]Here is the matthew 12 : 43, 44, 45 modifications on sentences 2 and 3 &gt;[/b] 2. "Keep in your mind that I Am the keeper of your life and your life is dependent on Me. Keep in your mind that if at first you are not with Me, there is a demon hovering around you to tempt you, this will be doubled if you place yourself with Me. If there were three demons with you at first, these will become more than ten once you placed yourself with Me because they will pull you away for you to be led astray of the way. Keep in your mind that I Am always with you, in the same way that all of you are with Me and all of you who will call to Me in the right way I do hereby choose you from this world. I do hereby choose you to spread my Holy Word. Go ye and make all nations My followers and disciples and I Am baptizing you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." __________________ [b]2Co 3:6-8 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, ... 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/b] Brethen, I would be posting next time his write up on how this belief came upon at the latter part of august 2001. GOD's Words that He commanded to be written exposed as such &gt; [b]Isa 45:7 [/b][size=18]I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. [/size]
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mrwilson37
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 172

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Posted: Jan 24, 2006 4:53:14 PM
Why did other people did not seek by God? Is there a favoritsm? Those who will seek by God will be the chosen and those who did not are not elect. We have a very clear answer. Those who did not seek by God, why they have not been chosen coz in any circumstances they will not humble themselves. This is God foreknowledge. He knows we will humble ourselves that is why he has seeked and chosen us.   [b][i]Steve &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]The Lord God seeks us out. Ezekiel 34:11-12 "For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day." He does it all!! We must take heed to the warning in Romans 10:3 "For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." [/quote]
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mrwilson37
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 172

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Posted: Jan 24, 2006 5:14:44 PM
I think before the Potter will have power over the clay, the clay must humble hiself 1st. After humbling oneself (being the clay) that is the time for the Potter to have power over the clay. Means we submit our spiritual life to him. Whatever he do to us, what we must do is to accept, accept &amp; accept. Potter has the power over the clay. [b][i]Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]sandra, I agree, We can do nothing without God's guidance and power. Are you saying the Potter has no power over the clay? Is it the clay that decides what it is formed into? Does the clay decide it will be made into a vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? God is the One who gives us a new heart. With the new heart we are converted into little children. Not of our own doing but of His.  [quote] From:  "sandra3102" Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives Date:  Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:19:00 -0700 &gt; &gt; Steve_Jorns1 wrote: &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; You are correct. With human understanding, working out our salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we do it with God’s guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is NOT God’s decision. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From:  "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; Date:  Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You brought a very good point from man’s point of view. Very clearly it is as if “to will and to do” comes from God for “his good pleasure.” &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It directly contradicts: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with human  understanding, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” is man’s exercise of “free will” TO HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of “free will” whether we can feel God’s direct control of our mind and feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for ourselves. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 362

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Posted: Jan 24, 2006 9:21:45 PM
As it has been said, we need to be very careful in giving ourselves any credit. He has done it all! That could be deemed as our own righteousness. God forbid. [quote] From:  [i]wilfredo molina &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Tue, 24 Jan 2006 01:53:15 -0700[/i] [quote]Why did other people did not seek by God? Is there a favoritsm? Those who will seek by God will be the chosen and those who did not are not elect. We have a very clear answer. Those who did not seek by God, why they have not been chosen coz in any circumstances they will not humble themselves. This is God foreknowledge.    He knows we will humble ourselves that is why he has seeked and chosen us.   Steve &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; wrote: &gt; The Lord God seeks us out. &gt; &gt; Ezekiel 34:11-12 "For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and  dark day." &gt; &gt; He does it all!! &gt; &gt; We must take heed to the warning in Romans 10:3 "For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 362

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Posted: Jan 24, 2006 9:25:09 PM
The Potter forms us in the womb before we have an opportunity to do anything for ourselves. You say we must accept, accept &amp; accept but Ephesians 1:6 says "to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein [b]he hath made us accepted [/b]in the beloved:" [quote] From:  [i]wilfredo molina &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:14:44 -0700[/i] [quote]I think before the Potter will have power over the clay, the clay must humble hiself 1st. After humbling oneself (being the clay) that is the time for the Potter to have power over the clay. Means we submit our spiritual life to him. Whatever he do to us, what we must do is to accept, accept &amp; accept. Potter has the power over the clay. Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; wrote: &gt; sandra, &gt; I agree, We can do nothing without God's guidance and power. Are you saying the Potter has no power over the clay? Is it the clay that decides what it is formed into? Does the clay decide it will be made into a vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? God is the One who gives us a new heart. With the new heart we are converted into little children. Not of our own doing but of His.  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  From:  "sandra3102" &gt; &gt;  Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt;  To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt;  Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt;  Date:  Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:19:00 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Steve_Jorns1 wrote: &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; You are correct. With human understanding, working out our salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we do it with God’s guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is NOT God’s decision. &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; From:  "sandra3102" &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; Date:  Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700 &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You brought a very good point from man’s point of view. Very clearly it is as if “to will and to do” comes from God for “his good pleasure.” &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It directly contradicts: &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much  more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with human  understanding, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” is man’s exercise of “free will” TO HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of “free will” whether we can feel God’s direct control of our mind and feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for ourselves. &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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art.barga
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 25, 2006 12:27:18 PM
[b]Portion of the posting of previous/former participant[/b]:     Malachi 3:3 says: "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver."   "This verse puzzled some women in a Bible study and they wondered what this statement meant about the character and nature of God. One of the women offered to find out the process of refining silver and get back to the group at their next Bible Study. That week, the woman called a silversmith and made an appointment to watch him at work. She didn't mention anything about the reason for her interest beyond her curiosity about the process of refining silver. As she watched the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest as to burn away all the impurities. The woman thought about God holding us in such a hot spot then she thought again about the verse that says: "He sits as a refiner and purifier of silver." She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined. The man answered that yes, he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. If the silver was left a moment too long in the flames, it would be destroyed. The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silversmith, "How do you know when the silver is fully refined?" He smiled at her and answered, "Oh, that's easy - when I see my image in it." If today you are feeling the heat of the fire, remember that God has His eye on you and will keep watching you until He sees His image in you. "     [b]And the Brethren's posting regarding the issue thru the revelation of God[/b]     "Indeed, nice to see silver being refined, and to imagine we, as "spiritual silver" being refined by God. What is very regrettable is only a very small portion of the ORE could be refined as silver. So are "many" people, NOT ALL, only "a few" deserve to be refined "as silver is refined." Zec 13:8  And it shall come to pass, that in all the land (ORE), saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be CUT OFF AND DIE; but the third shall be left therein. Zec 13:9  And I will bring the third part through the fire, and WILL REFINE THEM AS SILVER IS REFINED, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I WILL HEAR THEM: I WILL SAY, IT IS MY PEOPLE: and they shall say, The LORD is my God. [b][/b]  [b]For the information of those who are newly following this forum,[/b] [b]the issue here was that all or everyone will be saved according to former[/b] [b]participant and not all as revealed to brethren. There had[/b] [b]been a several  exchanges of explanation using man wisdom as [/b] [b]against spiritual word of God by demonstration following the[/b] [b]commandment of the Lord in Isaiah 28:10.[/b] [b][/b]  [b][/b]  [b]This is being brought up not to offend, despise or humiliate anyone,[/b] [b] but for the glory of God that some [/b][b]may find edification and be cleared [/b] [b]with questions in their mind thru the intercession of [/b][b]God's spirit. [/b] [b]For no one can teach anyone except God via HIs Spirit(the teacher-[/b] [b]John 14:26 "[/b][b]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the [/b] [b]Father will send in my name, [/b][b]he shall teach you all things, and bring [/b] [b]all things to your remembrance, whatsoever [/b][b]I have said unto you.")[/b] [b][/b]  [b]Yes, it is only God teaches and the Spirit of God with in us is the one [/b] [b]teaching and [/b][b]makes us understand the spiritual meaning of His words. [/b] [b]I am trying to make the new readers [/b][b]to understand this, but I know in [/b] [b]my heart this can not be easily comprehended  by others. Although[/b] [b]being aware of it, still am trying to attempt to do such because of following [/b] [b]His commandments in[/b] [b][/b]  [b]Isaiah 58:6 "Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of [/b] [b]wickedness, [/b][b]to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, [/b] [b]and that ye break every yoke?[/b] [b][/b]  [b]Isaiah 58:7 "Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the [/b] [b]poor that are [/b][b]cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou [/b] [b]cover him; and that thou hide [/b][b]not thyself from thine own flesh?[/b] [b][/b]  [b]Hoping that lost sheep will find this forum and will hear His voice and [/b] [b]will follow Him [/b][b]as it written in:[/b] [b][/b]  [b]John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:[/b] [b][/b]  [b][/b]  [b]The above caption exchanges is a good example of following the commandment [/b] [b]of the Lord in[/b] [b][/b]  [b]Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, [/b] [b]precept upon precept; [/b][b]line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; [/b] [b]that they might go, and fall backward, [/b][b]and be broken, and snared, and taken.[/b] [b][/b]  [b]The first posting implies that everyone will be saved by just quoting that verse alone [/b] [b]and other related [/b][b]verses to it. But please be reminded that if there are verses contradicting [/b] [b]the verse quoted that is not the [/b][b]right interpretation of it. And it is just by following the [/b] [b]mentioned commandment of the Lord and by the guidance [/b][b]of His spirit within a sheep that [/b] [b]one can [/b][b]arrive to the right interpretations-and become at peace with certain verse.[/b] [b][/b]  [b]A sheep who is following the commandments of God and by the guidance/teaching of [/b] [b]the Spirit of God [/b][b]that when fitted with peoples who are not following the commandment in [/b] [b]Isaiah 28:13 will be startled, shaken, trapped and put into a [/b][b]gag upon hearing the truth [/b] [b]by rightly dividing the word of truth by Isaiah 28:10. It is because they are taking the [/b] [b]word of God literally in spite of what is written in:[/b] [b][/b]  [b]2 Corinthians 3:6 "Who also hath made [/b][b]us able ministers of the new testament; not [/b] [b]of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter [/b][b]killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/b][b] [/b]    [b]How they may be able to know that is the right interpretation?[/b] [b][/b]  [b]They know because they have received the understanding because they humbled [/b] [b]their selves to God as little children in [/b] [b][/b]  [b]Matthew 18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become [/b] [b]as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."[/b] [b][/b]  [b]How can they be sure?[/b] [b][/b]  [b]They are sure because it is only them who received who know that[/b] [b]what they received is the truth.[/b]   Revelation 2:17 “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; [b][u]To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a [/u][/b] [b][u]white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving [/u][/b] [b][u]he that receiveth it.[/u][/b] [b][/b]  [b]They know that is the right interpretation because when they received the revelation [/b] [b]from the one true God the spirit within them is exceedingly joyous. There is assurance[/b] [b]uttered by the spirit within, not in audible voice but more on soothing waves appeasing [/b] [b]the heart . [/b][b]A joy that is totally different [/b][b]from the superficial joy [/b][b]that this world offers that [/b] [b]make them feel want to shout as in:[/b]   Psalms 35:27 “[b]Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous [/b] [b][/b]cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant. "   Psalms 32:11 [b]“Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, [u]ye righteous: and shout for joy,[/u][/b] [b][/b][b][u]all ye that are upright in heart. "[/u][/b] [b][u][/u][/b]  [b][u][/u][/b]  [b][/b]  [b][/b] 
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art.barga
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 25, 2006 12:50:02 PM
I would suggest if you do not mind that please reconcile first this verse that came out from the Lord's mouth according to Apostle John. John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." We are all aware in the word of God there are so many contradictions and you have witnessed that in the past from all thepostings made in this forum. It is only the Lord who can teach you what you are trying to prove and you know that. You can quote all the verses pertaining to it and vice-versa but still it is only Lord Jesus will give you the conviction. It is up to you now how to reconcile all the verses you have quoted thru the Holy Spirit guidance.Remember Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make..After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall TEACH no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, KNOW the LORD: for they shall all KNOW me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD...". James 1:5-6 " If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jorns" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; To: &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:43 PM Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives [quote] The Potter forms us in the womb before we have an opportunity to do anything for ourselves. You say we must accept, accept &amp; accept but[/quote] Ephesians 1:6 says "to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved:" [quote] &gt; &gt; From: wilfredo molina &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:14:44 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; I think before the Potter will have power over the clay, the clay must humble hiself 1st. After humbling oneself (being the clay) that is the time[/quote] for the Potter to have power over the clay. Means we submit our spiritual life to him. Whatever he do to us, what we must do is to accept, accept &amp; accept. Potter has the power over the clay. [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt; I agree, We can do nothing without God's guidance and power. Are you saying the Potter has no power over the clay? Is it the clay that[/quote] decides what it is formed into? Does the clay decide it will be made into a vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? God is the One who gives us a new heart. With the new heart we are converted into little children. Not of our own doing but of His. [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:19:00 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve_Jorns1 wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You are correct. With human understanding, working out our salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same[/quote] time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we do it with God's guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO[/quote] HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is NOT God's decision. [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You brought a very good point from man's point of view. Very clearly it is as if "to will and to do" comes from God for "his good[/quote] pleasure." [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It directly contradicts: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work[/quote] out your own salvation with fear and trembling. [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with human understanding, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" is man's exercise of "free will" TO[/quote] HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of "free will" whether we can feel God's direct control of our mind and[/quote] feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for ourselves. [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote]
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 362

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Posted: Jan 26, 2006 1:32:16 AM
We only come to Him because He draws us, He quickens us &amp; He stirs us as He said He will draw all men unto Him. [quote] From:  [i]"Art Barga" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]Re: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:50:03 -0700[/i] [quote]I would suggest if you do not mind that please reconcile first this verse that came out from the Lord's mouth according to Apostle John. John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." We are all aware in the word of God there are so many contradictions and you have witnessed that in the past from all thepostings made in this forum. It is only the Lord who can teach you what you are trying to prove and you know that. You can quote all the verses pertaining to it and vice-versa but still it is only Lord Jesus will give you the conviction. It is up to you now how to reconcile all the verses you have quoted thru the Holy Spirit guidance.Remember Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make..After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall TEACH no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, KNOW the LORD: for they shall all KNOW me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD...". James 1:5-6 " If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jorns" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; To: &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:43 PM Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; The Potter forms us in the womb before we have an opportunity to do anything for ourselves. You say we must accept, accept &amp; accept but Ephesians 1:6 says "to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved:" &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: wilfredo molina &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:14:44 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I think before the Potter will have power over the clay, the clay must humble hiself 1st. After humbling oneself (being the clay) that is the time for the Potter to have power over the clay. Means we submit our spiritual life to him. Whatever he do to us, what we must do is to accept, accept &amp; accept. Potter has the power over the clay. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; I agree, We can do nothing without God's guidance and power. Are you saying the Potter has no power  over the clay? Is it the clay that decides what it is formed into? Does the clay decide it will be made into a vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? God is the One who gives us a new heart. With the new heart we are converted into little children. Not of our own doing but of His. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; From: "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:19:00 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve_Jorns1  wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You are correct. With human understanding, working out our salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we do it with God's guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is NOT God's decision. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You brought a very good point from man's point of view. Very clearly it is as if "to will and to do" comes from God for "his good pleasure." &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It directly contradicts: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with human understanding, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" is man's exercise of "free will" TO HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of "free will" whether we can feel God's direct control of  our mind and feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for ourselves. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. [/quote] [/quote]
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art.barga
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 26, 2006 1:23:03 PM
As for me, let us put this into rest now unless some of the brethren has still something to say concerning this issue. I should say let us wait for more vivid revelation from God about this. Let us move on to other revelations God is giving us at the moment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jorns" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; To: &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives [quote] We only come to Him because He draws us, He quickens us &amp; He stirs us as He said He will draw all men unto Him.[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; From: "Art Barga" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; Subject: Re: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:50:03 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; I would suggest if you do not mind that please reconcile first this verse[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; that came out from the &gt; &gt; Lord's mouth according to Apostle John. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him &gt; &gt; that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We are all aware in the word of God there are so many contradictions and you[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; have witnessed that &gt; &gt; in the past from all thepostings made in this forum. It is only the Lord who[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; can teach you what you are &gt; &gt; trying to prove and you know that. You can quote all the verses pertaining[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; to it and vice-versa but still &gt; &gt; it is only Lord Jesus will give you the conviction. It is up to you now how[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; to reconcile all the verses you have &gt; &gt; quoted thru the Holy Spirit guidance.Remember &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make..After those[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; days, saith the &gt; &gt; LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; and will be their God, &gt; &gt; and they shall be my people. 34And they shall TEACH no more every man his[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; neighbour, &gt; &gt; and every man his brother, saying, KNOW the LORD: for they shall all KNOW[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; me, &gt; &gt; from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD...". &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; James 1:5-6 " If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; all men liberally, and &gt; &gt; upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; wavering. For he that &gt; &gt; wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.." &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ----- Original Message ----- &gt; &gt; From: "Steve Jorns" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; To: &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:43 PM &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The Potter forms us in the womb before we have an opportunity to do &gt; &gt; anything for ourselves. You say we must accept, accept &amp; accept but &gt; &gt; Ephesians 1:6 says "to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; made us accepted in the beloved:" &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: wilfredo molina &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:14:44 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I think before the Potter will have power over the clay, the clay must[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; humble hiself 1st. After humbling oneself (being the clay) that is the time[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; for the Potter to have power over the clay. Means we submit our spiritual[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; life to him. Whatever he do to us, what we must do is to accept, accept &amp;[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; accept. Potter has the power over the clay. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I agree, We can do nothing without God's guidance and power. Are[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; you saying the Potter has no power over the clay? Is it the clay that &gt; &gt; decides what it is formed into? Does the clay decide it will be made into a[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? God is the One[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; who gives us a new heart. With the new heart we are converted into little[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; children. Not of our own doing but of His. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:19:00 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve_Jorns1 wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You are correct. With human understanding, working out our[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; do it with God's guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is NOT God's decision. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You brought a very good point from man's point of view.[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; Very clearly it is as if "to will and to do" comes from God for "his good[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; pleasure." &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; and to do of his good pleasure. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It directly contradicts: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always &gt; &gt; obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; out your own salvation with fear and trembling. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with human understanding, "work out your own &gt; &gt; salvation with fear and trembling" is man's exercise of "free will" TO &gt; &gt; HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; "free will" whether we can feel God's direct control of our mind and &gt; &gt; feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; ourselves. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question.[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote]
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 362

Other Topics
Posted: Jan 26, 2006 9:16:13 PM
And I will leave it at this. The bottom line is we are to take no glory from Him by saying we did something in and of ourselves. That's what happens in the freewill belief. [quote] From:  [i]"Art Barga" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]Re: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:23:06 -0700[/i] [quote]As for me, let us put this into rest now unless some of the brethren has still something to say concerning this issue. I should say let us wait for more vivid revelation from God about this. Let us move on to other revelations God is giving us at the moment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jorns" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; To: &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; We only come to Him because He draws us, He quickens us &amp; He stirs us as He said He will draw all men unto Him. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "Art Barga" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:50:03 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I would suggest if you do not mind that please reconcile first this verse &gt; &gt; &gt; that came out from the &gt; &gt; &gt; Lord's mouth according to Apostle John. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him &gt; &gt; &gt; that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We are all aware in the word of God there are so many contradictions and you &gt; &gt; &gt; have witnessed that &gt; &gt; &gt; in the past from all thepostings made in this forum. It is only the Lord who &gt; &gt; &gt; can teach you what you are &gt; &gt; &gt; trying to prove and you  know that. You can quote all the verses pertaining &gt; &gt; &gt; to it and vice-versa but still &gt; &gt; &gt; it is only Lord Jesus will give you the conviction. It is up to you now how &gt; &gt; &gt; to reconcile all the verses you have &gt; &gt; &gt; quoted thru the Holy Spirit guidance.Remember &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make..After those &gt; &gt; &gt; days, saith the &gt; &gt; &gt; LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; &gt; &gt; &gt; and will be their God, &gt; &gt; &gt; and they shall be my people. 34And they shall TEACH no more every man his &gt; &gt; &gt; neighbour, &gt; &gt; &gt; and every man his brother, saying, KNOW the LORD: for they shall all KNOW &gt; &gt; &gt; me, &gt; &gt; &gt; from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD...". &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; James 1:5-6 " If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to &gt; &gt; &gt; all men liberally,  and &gt; &gt; &gt; upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing &gt; &gt; &gt; wavering. For he that &gt; &gt; &gt; wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.." &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ----- Original Message ----- &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "Steve Jorns" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:43 PM &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; The Potter forms us in the womb before we have an opportunity to do &gt; &gt; &gt; anything for ourselves. You say we must accept, accept &amp; accept but &gt; &gt; &gt; Ephesians 1:6 says "to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath &gt; &gt; &gt; made us accepted in the beloved:" &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; From: wilfredo molina  &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:14:44 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; I think before the Potter will have power over the clay, the clay must &gt; &gt; &gt; humble hiself 1st. After humbling oneself (being the clay) that is the time &gt; &gt; &gt; for the Potter to have power over the clay. Means we submit our spiritual &gt; &gt; &gt; life to him. Whatever he do to us, what we must do is to accept, accept &amp; &gt; &gt; &gt; accept. Potter has the power over the clay. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I agree, We can do  nothing without God's guidance and power. Are &gt; &gt; &gt; you saying the Potter has no power over the clay? Is it the clay that &gt; &gt; &gt; decides what it is formed into? Does the clay decide it will be made into a &gt; &gt; &gt; vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? God is the One &gt; &gt; &gt; who gives us a new heart. With the new heart we are converted into little &gt; &gt; &gt; children. Not of our own doing but of His. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:19:00 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve_Jorns1 wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You are correct. With human understanding, working out our &gt; &gt; &gt; salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same &gt; &gt; &gt; time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we &gt; &gt; &gt; do it with God's guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO &gt; &gt; &gt; HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is NOT God's decision. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04  -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You brought a very good point from man's point of view. &gt; &gt; &gt; Very clearly it is as if "to will and to do" comes from God for "his good &gt; &gt; &gt; pleasure." &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will &gt; &gt; &gt; and to do of his good pleasure. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It directly contradicts: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always &gt; &gt; &gt; obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work &gt; &gt; &gt; out your own salvation with fear and trembling. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with human understanding, "work out your own &gt; &gt; &gt; salvation with fear and trembling" is man's exercise of "free will" TO &gt; &gt; &gt; HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of &gt; &gt; &gt; "free will" whether we can feel God's direct control of our mind and &gt; &gt; &gt; feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for &gt; &gt; &gt; ourselves. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 26, 2006 10:35:08 PM
Truly Steve, God will draw us nigh straight to Him and He did this to Moses, to Jeremiah, and to Pual and to others. God will not draw us nigh to anything else like the bible. God will let us read the bible, but the explanation, the right one, we have to ask from God personally. [b][i]Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]We only come to Him because He draws us, He quickens us &amp; He stirs us as He said He will draw all men unto Him. [/quote]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 26, 2006 10:37:55 PM
By all means brother, let us wait to the Lord God for His direct revelation. [b][i]Art Barga &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]As for me, let us put this into rest now unless some of the brethren has still something to say concerning this issue. I should say let us wait for more vivid revelation from God about this. Let us move on to other revelations God is giving us at the moment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jorns" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives [quote] We only come to Him because He draws us, He quickens us &amp; He stirs us as He said He will draw all men unto Him. [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; From: "Art Barga" &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; Subject: Re: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:50:03 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; I would suggest if you do not mind that please reconcile first this verse [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; that came out from the &gt; &gt; Lord's mouth according to Apostle John. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him &gt; &gt; that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We are all aware in the word of God there are so many contradictions and you [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; have witnessed that &gt; &gt; in the past from all thepostings made in this forum. It is only the Lord who [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; can teach you what you are &gt; &gt; trying to prove and you know that. You can quote all the verses pertaining [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; to it and vice-versa but still &gt; &gt; it is only Lord Jesus will give you the conviction. It is up to you now how [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; to reconcile all the verses you have &gt; &gt; quoted thru the Holy Spirit guidance.Remember &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make..After those [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; days, saith the &gt; &gt; LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; and will be their God, &gt; &gt; and they shall be my people. 34And they shall TEACH no more every man his [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; neighbour, &gt; &gt; and every man his brother, saying, KNOW the LORD: for they shall all KNOW [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; me, &gt; &gt; from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD...". &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; James 1:5-6 " If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; all men liberally, and &gt; &gt; upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; wavering. For he that &gt; &gt; wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.." &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ----- Original Message ----- &gt; &gt; From: "Steve Jorns" &gt; &gt; To: &gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:43 PM &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The Potter forms us in the womb before we have an opportunity to do &gt; &gt; anything for ourselves. You say we must accept, accept &amp; accept but &gt; &gt; Ephesians 1:6 says "to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; made us accepted in the beloved:" &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: wilfredo molina &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:14:44 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I think before the Potter will have power over the clay, the clay must [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; humble hiself 1st. After humbling oneself (being the clay) that is the time [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; for the Potter to have power over the clay. Means we submit our spiritual [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; life to him. Whatever he do to us, what we must do is to accept, accept &amp; [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; accept. Potter has the power over the clay. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve Jorns wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I agree, We can do nothing without God's guidance and power. Are [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; you saying the Potter has no power over the clay? Is it the clay that &gt; &gt; decides what it is formed into? Does the clay decide it will be made into a [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? God is the One [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; who gives us a new heart. With the new heart we are converted into little [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; children. Not of our own doing but of His. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:19:00 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve_Jorns1 wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You are correct. With human understanding, working out our [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; do it with God's guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is NOT God's decision. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: "sandra3102" &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You brought a very good point from man's point of view. [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; Very clearly it is as if "to will and to do" comes from God for "his good [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; pleasure." &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; and to do of his good pleasure. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It directly contradicts: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always &gt; &gt; obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; out your own salvation with fear and trembling. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with human understanding, "work out your own &gt; &gt; salvation with fear and trembling" is man's exercise of "free will" TO &gt; &gt; HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; "free will" whether we can feel God's direct control of our mind and &gt; &gt; feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; ourselves. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. [/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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