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Confession of a Lost Sheep

- Like a lost sheep, I was drifting and restless anxiously looking for the Shepherd.

- Unknown to me, the Shepherd was calling my name.

- We met each other, and this is my joy relating what happened.

 

Mar 06, 2000

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Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives

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Steve
Joined Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 74
Location:Chicago

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Posted: Jan 11, 2006 2:12:47 AM
Isn't it the same as the chosen only love Him because He loved His chosen first? Truly LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for [b]thou[/b] also [b]hast[/b] [b]wrought all our works in us[/b]." (Isaiah 26:12)
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art.barga
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 11, 2006 1:04:02 PM
I can only say as it is written in Psalm 19:7 "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. And it is by Timothy 2:13 "........., rightly dividing the word of truth." Thru Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: That these parables can be known with the spirit of God in you. Ezekiel 20:49 "Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak in parables? Psalms 78:2 "I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old: Or else we will end up in unending confusions. Let alone Him to explain His words. Let us learn to wait for the revelation of God to us. I must admit the very first time this has been brought up, I was lost I can't reconcile this topic and as if something inside of me is repealing the revelation of the brethren. What I did is to plea with the Lord to give me the food as being asked in Lord's Prayer. Then after sometime I became at peace with it. Children of God never boastful about what the Lord Jesus has given them for they know that everything being fed to them are from Him alone. They are aware that they own nothing. They are just a vessel to feed His sheep and for His glorification. They know that they are still reprobates but trying to be as He shown them. They try to listen intensely with the spirit of God within them. Every verse has it spiritual message that has to be divided rightly for in them we have eternal life(John 6:63). They should fall where they are to be fitted or intended to through the guidance of God's spirit in you. And Let us always remember to whom and how the Lord Jesus teaches knowledge as it is written Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: There always be a time that Children of are going to fall asleep because they have forsaken fellowship with the word. They stopped praying and forgotten the commandment of the Lord. 1Thessalonians 5:17 "Pray without ceasing".. This topic will never put to rest unless the verses relating to it will be revealed by God to those who seek it. The deep things of God. For no one can teach anyone as it is written Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make..After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall TEACH no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, KNOW the LORD: for they shall all KNOW me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD...". James 1:5-6 " If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.." Lastly, Brethren let us rejuvenate the spirit within us by following 1 Tes 5:17, Jeremiah 31:34 &amp; James 1:5-6. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jorns" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; To: &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:06 PM Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives [quote] No way do I deny the scriptures you have cited. It is written in Romans 9:19 "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath[/quote] resisted his will?" [quote] In Matthew 6:10 "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."[/quote] [quote] Isn't His will going to be done no matter what "our will" might be? Isn't it His will to make some unto honor and some unto dishonor?[/quote] [quote] Even our faith(what we believe) is a gift of God. It is not of ourselves so that we cannot boast.[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; From: "Art Barga" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; Reply-To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; To: bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; Subject: RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:48:17 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; This is just a supplement to Bro. Fil's postings &gt; &gt; Isaiah 64:8 "But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; Romans 9:21 "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; Lord Jesus who is the potter has the power to shape the clay to show His power and glory. This applies to all His creation and does not exclude[/quote] anybody, this is for everyone. This will also seen in verse [quote] &gt; &gt; Isaiah 45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; In physical life we have to use our faculties to shape and control our life. Although, sometimes things do not turn as we expected them even we did[/quote] our best to influence the outcome. I think, those that we do not have control that makes us failure i.e people who decides or factors that dictate the results. I believe there will be a slim chance that we will fail if the dealings is within our boundaries and if we thoroughly done our homework. [quote] &gt; &gt; But when it comes to choosing our spiritual life He has given us the freewill as it is written:[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; John 5:24" Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; In the above verses, God's chosen were chosen by Him and at the &gt; &gt; same time they should will to hear and keep/follow the word of God to &gt; &gt; see Jesus as the son of God so that they might believe that sent him. &gt; &gt; Even those predestinated before the foundation of the world the Lord as[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; revealed to the brethren, God is creating the circumstances based from[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; His foreknowledge because as it is written. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; John 6:64 "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; beginning who they were that believed not , and who should betray him. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; God has the foreknowledge of whom shall believe on Him. The believer of HIm should will[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; to hear and follow the words/commandments of God: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Matthew 18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children,[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Mark 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is,[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: (mid://00000096/mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20SettingsArt%20BargaMy%20Do[/quote] cumentskjvkjv.chm::/B05C006.htm#V4) " [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Mark 12:30 "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul,[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Mark 12:31 "And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/quote] (mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20Settingsart.bargaMy%20DocumentsART%20-Doc umentskjvkjv.chm::/B03C019.htm#V18) [quote] &gt; &gt; There is none other commandment greater than these. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Eventually to arrive to: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; John 6:64 "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; it were given unto him of my Father." &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Thus follows the recognition of the one true God &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 1John 5:5 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Questions : &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Are we now an overcomer? Did we believe Jesus is the son of God? Did we hear and keep[/quote] [quote] &gt; &gt; His words and greatest commandments? Do we speak His language? &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 11, 2006 1:42:54 PM
Isn't His will going to be done no matter what "our will" might be? Isn't it His will to make some unto honor and some unto dishonor?   Even it is God's will that all may be saved yet God will not make it happen by forcing His will, but God will let us choose our destiny. We are the one making our own destiny by deciding what action to take - to believe/trust or not to believe/trust in God.   [b][i]Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]No way do I deny the scriptures you have cited. It is written in Romans 9:19 "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?" In Matthew 6:10 "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Isn't His will going to be done no matter what "our will" might be? Isn't it His will to make some unto honor and some unto dishonor? Even our faith(what we believe) is a gift of God. It is not of ourselves so that we cannot boast. [quote] From:  "Art Barga" Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives Date:  Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:48:17 -0700 &gt; This  is just a supplement to Bro. Fil's postings &gt; Isaiah 64:8  "But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and  we all are the work of thy hand. &gt; Romans 9:21  "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one  vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? &gt; Lord  Jesus who is the potter has the power to shape the clay to show His power and  glory. This applies to all His creation and does not exclude anybody, this is  for everyone. This will also seen in verse &gt;  Isaiah  45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,  and  create evil: I the LORD do all these  things." &gt; In  physical life we have to use our faculties to shape and control our life.  Although, sometimes things do not  turn as we expected them even we did our best to influence the outcome. I think,  those that we do not have control that makes us failure i.e people who decides  or factors that dictate the results. I believe there will be a slim chance that  we will fail if the dealings is within our boundaries and if we thoroughly done  our homework. &gt; But  when it comes to choosing our spiritual life He has given us the freewill  as it is written: &gt; John 6:37 “All that the  Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh  to me I will in no wise cast out." &gt; John 5:24” Verily, verily, I say  unto you, He  that  heareth my  word, and believeth &gt; on him that sent me,  hath everlasting life, and shall not come  into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. &gt; In the above verses, God's chosen  were chosen by Him and at the &gt; same time they should will to  hear and keep/follow the word of God to &gt; see Jesus as the son of God so  that they might believe that sent him. &gt; Even  those predestinated before the foundation of the world the Lord as &gt; revealed to the brethren,  God is creating the circumstances based  from  &gt; His  foreknowledge because as it is written.  &gt;   &gt; John  6:64 "But there are some of you that believe not.  For Jesus knew from the &gt; beginning who they were that believed not , and who  should betray him. &gt;   &gt; God has the  foreknowledge of whom shall believe on Him. The believer of HIm should  will &gt; to hear and  follow the words/commandments of God: &gt;   &gt; Matthew  18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be  converted,  and become as little  children,  &gt; ye shall not enter into the kingdom of  heaven. &gt; &gt;   &gt; Mark 12:29 “And Jesus  answered him, The first of all the commandments is, &gt; Hear, O  Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: (mid://00000096/mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20SettingsArt%20BargaMy%20Documentskjvkjv.chm::/B05C006.htm#V4) " &gt;   &gt; Mark 12:30 “And thou shalt love the Lord thy  God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, &gt; and with all thy mind, and  with all thy strength: this is the first  commandment." &gt;   &gt; Mark 12:31 "And  the second is like, namely this, Thou  shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20Settingsart.bargaMy%20DocumentsART%20-Documentskjvkjv.chm::/B03C019.htm#V18) &gt; There is none  other commandment greater than these. &gt; &gt;   &gt; Eventually to arrive  to: &gt;   &gt; John  6:64 "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that  no man can come unto me, except &gt; it were given  unto him of my Father." &gt;   &gt; Thus follows the  recognition of the one true God &gt;   &gt; Mat 16:17  And  Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: &gt; for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my  Father which is in heaven.  &gt;   &gt; 1John 5:5 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of  God?  &gt;   &gt; Questions : &gt;   &gt; Are we now an overcomer? Did we  believe Jesus is the son of God? Did we hear and keep &gt; His words and greatest  commandments? Do we speak His language? &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote] Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/holidayprints/*http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/photos/evt=38089/*http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//print_splash]See all the ways[/url] to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 362

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Posted: Jan 12, 2006 2:31:43 AM
Adlemi, That would appear to contradict Isaiah 26:12 "LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for [b]thou[/b] also [b]hast wrought all our works in us[/b]." 2Samuel 7:21 "For thy word's sake, and [b]according to thine own heart[/b], hast thou done all these great things, to make thy servant know them." Psalms 47:4 "[b]He shall choose our inheritance for us[/b], the excellency of Jacob whom he loved." Psalms 65:4 "Blessed is the man [b]whom thou choosest[/b], [b]and causest to approach unto thee[/b], that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple." [quote] From:  [i]Adlemi Sotnas &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:42:55 -0700[/i] [quote]Isn't His will going to be done no matter what "our will" might be? Isn't it His will to make some unto honor and some unto dishonor?         Even it is God's will that all may be saved yet God will not make it happen by forcing His will, but God will let us choose our destiny. We are the one making our own destiny by deciding what action to take - to believe/trust or not to believe/trust in God.      Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; wrote: &gt; No way do I deny the scriptures you have cited. It is written in Romans 9:19 "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?" &gt; In Matthew 6:10 "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." &gt; Isn't His will going to be done no matter what "our will" might be? Isn't it  His will to make some unto honor and some unto dishonor? &gt; Even our faith(what we believe) is a gift of God. It is not of ourselves so that we cannot boast. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  From:  "Art Barga" &gt; &gt;  Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt;  To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt;  Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt;  Date:  Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:48:17 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; This  is just a supplement to Bro. Fil's postings &gt; &gt;  &gt; Isaiah 64:8  "But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and  we all are the work of thy hand. &gt; &gt;  &gt; Romans 9:21  "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one  vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? &gt; &gt;  &gt; Lord  Jesus who is the potter has the power to shape  the clay to show His power and  glory. This applies to all His creation and does not exclude anybody, this is  for everyone. This will also seen in verse &gt; &gt;  &gt;  Isaiah  45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,  and  create evil: I the LORD do all these  things." &gt; &gt;  &gt; In  physical life we have to use our faculties to shape and control our life.  Although, sometimes things do not  turn as we expected them even we did our best to influence the outcome. I think,  those that we do not have control that makes us failure i.e people who decides  or factors that dictate the results. I believe there will be a slim chance that  we will fail if the dealings is within our boundaries and if we thoroughly done  our homework. &gt; &gt;  &gt; But  when it comes to choosing our spiritual life He has given us the  freewill  as it is written: &gt; &gt;  &gt; John 6:37 “All that the  Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh  to me I will in no wise cast out." &gt; &gt;  &gt; John 5:24” Verily, verily, I say  unto you, He  that  heareth my  word, and believeth &gt; &gt;  &gt; on him that sent me,  hath everlasting life, and shall not come  into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. &gt; &gt;  &gt; In the above verses, God's chosen  were chosen by Him and at the &gt; &gt;  &gt; same time they should will to  hear and keep/follow the word of God to &gt; &gt;  &gt; see Jesus as the son of God so  that they might believe that sent him. &gt; &gt;  &gt; Even  those predestinated before the foundation of the world the Lord as &gt; &gt;  &gt; revealed to the brethren,  God is creating the  circumstances based  from  &gt; &gt;  &gt; His  foreknowledge because as it is written.  &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; John  6:64 "But there are some of you that believe not.  For Jesus knew from the &gt; &gt;  &gt; beginning who they were that believed not , and who  should betray him. &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; God has the  foreknowledge of whom shall believe on Him. The believer of HIm should  will &gt; &gt;  &gt; to hear and  follow the words/commandments of God: &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; Matthew  18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be  converted,  and become as little  children,  &gt; &gt;  &gt; ye shall not enter into the kingdom of  heaven. &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; Mark 12:29 “And Jesus  answered him, The first of all the commandments is, &gt; &gt;  &gt;  Hear, O  Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: (mid://00000096/mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20SettingsArt%20BargaMy%20Documentskjvkjv.chm::/B05C006.htm#V4) " &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; Mark 12:30 “And thou shalt love the Lord thy  God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, &gt; &gt;  &gt; and with all thy mind, and  with all thy strength: this is the first  commandment." &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; Mark 12:31 "And  the second is like, namely this, Thou  shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20Settingsart.bargaMy%20DocumentsART%20-Documentskjvkjv.chm::/B03C019.htm#V18) &gt; &gt;  &gt; There is none  other commandment greater than these. &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; Eventually to arrive  to: &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; John  6:64 "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that  no man can come unto me, except &gt; &gt;  &gt;  it were given  unto him of my Father." &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; Thus follows the  recognition of the one true God &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; Mat 16:17  And  Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: &gt; &gt;  &gt; for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my  Father which is in heaven.  &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; 1John 5:5 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of  God?  &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; Questions : &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; Are we now an overcomer? Did we  believe Jesus is the son of God? Did we hear and keep &gt; &gt;  &gt; His words and greatest  commandments? Do we speak His language? &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;    Yahoo! Photos    Got holiday prints? See all the ways (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/holidayprints/*http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/photos/evt=38089/*http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//print_splash) to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. [/quote] [/quote]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 12, 2006 11:02:42 PM
Isaiah 26:12 - When will God ordain peace to us? Is it now? What kind of peace and how lasting is it? Will God ordain peace to us without doing anything? How God will rate you Steve for you to find peace? Lots of queries will crop up Steve and how are we to answer it if you find many perplexing verses in the bible? I know your point because you are able to find many verses which at a glance seems to insinuate that it is God who is choosing and doing things for His chosen. Why not go directly to God Steve for you to find the best answer to all of these verses? Nobody can answer you to the best of your satisfaction, even the bible, except God himself. I wish you the best brother. [b][i]Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]Adlemi, That would appear to contradict Isaiah 26:12 "LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us." 2Samuel 7:21 "For thy word's sake, and according to thine own heart, hast thou done all these great things, to make thy servant know them." Psalms 47:4 "He shall choose our inheritance for us, the excellency of Jacob whom he loved." Psalms 65:4 "Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple." [quote] From:  Adlemi Sotnas Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives Date:  Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:42:55 -0700 &gt; Isn't His will going to be done no matter what "our will" might be? &gt; Isn't it His will to make some unto honor and some unto dishonor? &gt;      &gt;    Even it is God's will that all may be saved yet God will not make it happen by forcing His will, but God will let us choose our destiny. We are the one making our own destiny by deciding what action to take - to believe/trust or not to believe/trust in God. &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve Jorns wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; No way do I deny the scriptures you have cited. It is written in Romans 9:19 "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?" &gt; &gt; In Matthew 6:10 "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." &gt; &gt; Isn't His will going to be done no matter what "our will" might be? Isn't it  His will to make some unto honor and some unto dishonor? &gt; &gt; Even our faith(what we believe) is a gift of God. It is not of ourselves so that we cannot boast. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  From:  "Art Barga" &gt; &gt; &gt;  Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt;  Date:  Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:48:17 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; This  is just a supplement to Bro. Fil's postings &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Isaiah 64:8  "But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and  we all are the work of thy hand. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Romans 9:21  "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one  vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Lord  Jesus who is the potter has the power to shape  the clay to show His power and  glory. This applies to all His creation and does not exclude anybody, this is  for everyone. This will also seen in verse &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;  Isaiah  45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,  and  create evil: I the LORD do all these  things." &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; In  physical life we have to use our faculties to shape and control our life.  Although, sometimes things do not  turn as we expected them even we did our best to influence the outcome. I think,  those that we do not have control that makes us failure i.e people who decides  or factors that dictate the results. I believe there will be a slim chance that  we will fail if the dealings is within our boundaries and if we thoroughly done  our homework. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; But  when it comes to choosing our spiritual life He has given us the  freewill  as it is written: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; John 6:37 “All that the  Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh  to me I will in no wise cast out." &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; John 5:24” Verily, verily, I say  unto you, He  that  heareth my  word, and believeth &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; on him that sent me,  hath everlasting life, and shall not come  into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; In the above verses, God's chosen  were chosen by Him and at the &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; same time they should will to  hear and keep/follow the word of God to &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; see Jesus as the son of God so  that they might believe that sent him. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Even  those predestinated before the foundation of the world the Lord as &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; revealed to the brethren,  God is creating the  circumstances based  from  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; His  foreknowledge because as it is written.  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; John  6:64 "But there are some of you that believe not.  For Jesus knew from the &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; beginning who they were that believed not , and who  should betray him. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; God has the  foreknowledge of whom shall believe on Him. The believer of HIm should  will &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; to hear and  follow the words/commandments of God: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Matthew  18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be  converted,  and become as little  children,  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; ye shall not enter into the kingdom of  heaven. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Mark 12:29 “And Jesus  answered him, The first of all the commandments is, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;  Hear, O  Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: (mid://00000096/mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20SettingsArt%20BargaMy%20Documentskjvkjv.chm::/B05C006.htm#V4) " &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Mark 12:30 “And thou shalt love the Lord thy  God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; and with all thy mind, and  with all thy strength: this is the first  commandment." &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Mark 12:31 "And  the second is like, namely this, Thou  shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20Settingsart.bargaMy%20DocumentsART%20-Documentskjvkjv.chm::/B03C019.htm#V18) &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; There is none  other commandment greater than these. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Eventually to arrive  to: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; John  6:64 "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that  no man can come unto me, except &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;  it were given  unto him of my Father." &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Thus follows the  recognition of the one true God &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Mat 16:17  And  Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my  Father which is in heaven.  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; 1John 5:5 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of  God?  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Questions : &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Are we now an overcomer? Did we  believe Jesus is the son of God? Did we hear and keep &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; His words and greatest  commandments? Do we speak His language? &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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Steve
Joined Oct 27, 2005
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Posted: Jan 13, 2006 2:22:29 AM
The point wasn't Him ordaining peace but that the LORD has wrought(done, worked) all our works in us. He chooses our inheritance for us. Who or what is our inheritance? Psalms 16:5 "The LORD is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup:.." Numbers 18:20 "And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel." He chooses and causes His chosen to approach Him. How do His chosen become sons of God? How do they believe on his name? By being born by the will of God, not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man.
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fil3232003
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 13, 2006 7:01:06 AM
Adlemi, True! God does everything for us in our SPIRITUAL LIFE: ** To "know Him (Mark 12:29) Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the [b][u]Christ[/u][/b], the [b][u]Son[/u][/b] of the living God. Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: [b][u]for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven[/u][/b]. Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, [b][u]except the Father [/u][/b]which hath sent me [b][u]draw him[/u][/b]: and I will raise him up at the last day. Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [b][u]he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him[/u].[/b] 1 Cor 12:3 ... and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, [b][u]but by the Holy Ghost[/u][/b]. ** To "love Him" through the truth in His words after revealing them to us (1 Cor. 2:12-13, 1 John 2:27, James 1:5-8, plus more verses), and "love of neighbour," God's "harvest of souls" (not fellowmen), hope you can distinguish the two -- Mark 12:30-31. [size=18]But on one condition[/size] -- by [u][b]HUMBLING[/b][/u] (Matt 18:3, 11:25, Eph 2:8-9 plus many more verses) ourselves to Him [size=18]that we are giving Him a FREE HAND to work in our life[/size]: The parable of the Potter and the clay The parable of the Vine (plus many more) [size=12][/size][u][b][/b][/u]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 13, 2006 9:35:54 PM
Quote: _______________________ He chooses and causes His chosen to approach Him. How do His chosen become sons of God? How do they believe on his name? By being born by the will of God, not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man. _______________________   If we will apply to you personally the first sentence above, let me ask you by saying how did God chooses you? Can you tell us the manner by which God approached and chose you to be His chosen? And how did you approach God? In my perspective, having you answered this tantamount to a very good explanation of that sentence above.   As per your own personal experience, how is this being born by the will of God........? If you really have experienced this being born of the will of God, you could narrate everything that happened between you and God and I see no reason for you to ask those queries for you have the right relationship with God. Any one who has been born of the will of God has experienced God and learn the things of God, not of men nor the things of this world. You are more than lucky to be born of the will of God Steve.   I choose not to deal with your other bible verses anymore because I stand pat that God will just respond to us based on what action did we take in our life - God chooses you because you first choose God to be your Lord. Should we do nothing, God will punish us in hell. The mere fact that you can do whatever you wish to do Steve is a clear sign that you are practicing your free will materially and spiritually.   [b][i]Steve &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]The point wasn't Him ordaining peace but that the LORD has wrought(done, worked) all our works in us. He chooses our inheritance for us. Who or what is our inheritance? Psalms 16:5 "The LORD is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup:.." Numbers 18:20 "And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel." He chooses and causes His chosen to approach Him. How do His chosen become sons of God? How do they believe on his name? By being born by the will of God, not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man. [/quote]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 13, 2006 9:39:55 PM
That is why the action must first come from us for God to respond afterward. This is some sort of two-way traffic. Humbling ourself before the Lord is our part and bestowing us eternal life is from the Lord. [b][i]fil3232003 &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]Adlemi, True! God does everything for us in our SPIRITUAL LIFE: ** To "know Him (Mark 12:29) Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 1 Cor 12:3 ... and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. ** To "love Him" through the truth in His words after revealing them to us (1 Cor. 2:12-13, 1 John 2:27, James 1:5-8, plus more verses), and "love of neighbour," God's "harvest of souls" (not fellowmen), hope you can distinguish the two -- Mark 12:30-31. But on one condition -- by HUMBLING (Matt 18:3, 11:25, Eph 2:8-9 plus many more verses) ourselves to Him that we are giving Him a FREE HAND to work in our life: The parable of the Potter and the clay The parable of the Vine (plus many more) [/quote]
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Steve
Joined Oct 27, 2005
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Posted: Jan 14, 2006 2:30:10 AM
How are we converted into little children? Psalm 19:7 "The [b]law of the LORD [/b]is perfect, [b]converting the soul[/b]: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple." Jeremiah 31:33 "but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith [b]the LORD[/b], I [b]will put my law [/b][b]in their inward parts[/b], and [b]write it in their hearts[/b]; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." John 12:40 "[b]He hath blinded [/b]their eyes, [b]and hardened their heart[/b]; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, [b]and be converted[/b], and I should heal them." Adlemsot, Who am I that He is mindful of me? Out of His rich and great mercies, He has chosen me. He drew me to His word. What can happen that is not His will? Luck has nothing to do with being born by the will of God. It is His Mercy and Grace. None of the bible verses you don't want to respond to are mine. The are All His. You say we are first to act then God will respond according to our actions. If that were the case, I'm afraid we all would end up with eternal punishment. Thankfully, He loved us FIRST, we didn't love Him first. Isn't it a bit boastful to say I acted before God? We don't first choose Him as our Lord. He first chooses us to be His friend/servant. He chose Peter to follow him yet He speaks of Peter's need to be converted in Luke 22:32. Was he not converted on the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came upon him? ALL GLORY TO GOD![/quote]
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ric32bailey
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 14, 2006 11:12:00 AM
I am only thinking that to take the “letter” of the word, we would encounter many contradictions. The is the pitfall of many people that I suppose we have to avoid. In the following, where does humility come from? 2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, [size=18]shall humble themselves[/size], and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding. I am reminded of the warning: Prov 3:5 “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and [size=18]lean not unto thine own understanding.”[/size]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 14, 2006 2:14:52 PM
I am grateful that you're doing the best that you can to discuss this matter. Since God is real and alive, each of us here has his/her own story to tell about our own experiences with God. Reading the bible from Genesis to Revelation will lead us to conclusion that the Lord God indeed interacted with people and God himself acted as their Teacher.   What I know Steve is that if God comes your way physically, God will personally draw you nigh to God himself and this fact is very clearly documented anywhere in all the books of the bible. Believing you that God is the first to act before us, how did God choose you, in what manner, what did God tell you and how will you prove that you are chosen first by God without you doing nothing at all? These I don't understand with you Steve because you responded by merely citing verses of the bible as if same were doctor's prescription only instead of your actual experience with God. Have you really encountered God telling you that He chose you first, verbally or whatever, in a question and answer manner? How did God interacted with you? Should you have this experience it would not be difficult to get what you are telling me here. Please deal more in this area. Don't be misunderstood that I am arguing with you, but I just wanted to understand you better and deeper in the best that I can.   Why did you say " I'm afraid we all would end up with eternal punishment" should we be the first one to act before God? Do you mean to say that if I, after reading the bibleb, believe that there is really God and started calling and telling to the Lord God, whom I do not see at all, that I am entrusting my whole life to Him and that I wanted Him to come in to me and let Him be my Lord and my God, I would end up in hell?   Quote: __________________________ .He chose Peter to follow him yet He speaks of Peter's need to be converted in Luke 22:32. Was he not converted on the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came upon him? ALL GLORY TO GOD![/ __________________________   I don't get you here. In my perspective there seem to be more contradiction in what you are saying above, If God chose Peter first, then why was there a need for Peter to be converted? Was Peter not converted when God chose him? What did God chose Peter for? If God choosing is not for conversion, then what is it for? Does conversion take place only in the filling of the Holy Spirit? If I were to believe in what you are saying, conversion took place by the time God chose a person, considering that said person was not yet doing anything at all? Is this what you are saying Steve.   All things were made by God and all things really belong to God. God is the source and final authority of TRUTH. God is our last recourse to arrive to the TRUTH. May God guide us all. [b][i]Steve &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]How are we converted into little children? Psalm 19:7 "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple." Jeremiah 31:33 "but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." John 12:40 "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." Adlemsot, Who am I that He is mindful of me? Out of His rich and great mercies, He has chosen me. He drew me to His word. What can happen that is not His will? Luck has nothing to do with being born by the will of God. It is His Mercy and Grace. None of the bible verses you don't want to respond to are mine. The are All His. You say we are first to act then God will respond according to our actions. If that were the case, I'm afraid we all would end up with eternal punishment. Thankfully, He loved us FIRST, we didn't love Him first. Isn't it a bit boastful to say I acted before God? We don't first choose Him as our Lord. He first chooses us to be His friend/servant. He chose Peter to follow him yet He speaks of Peter's need to be converted in Luke 22:32. Was he not converted on the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came upon him? ALL GLORY TO GOD![/quote] [/quote]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 14, 2006 2:43:39 PM
2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.     If I were to be ask on the above verse, I would digest it as follows:   1.  Humble ourselves before whom? Of course, before the Lord God.   2.  Pray to whom? Of course to the Lord God.   3.  Seek whom? Seek the face of the Lord God.   4.  Turn from what? Turn from our wicked ways.   The first four actions must come from us and we should have to do these first.   5. Who will hear from heaven after doing the items 1 to 4 above? The Lord said " then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. "   This verse of the bible clearly testifies that there is really God, that action for God to come to and to respond to us must first come from us. It is also very clear in here that it is none other than the Lord God whom we, people, must seek, not anything else. As I see it, people are always seeking the verses of the bible to enrich their mind knowledge about God instead of coming in and calling to the Lord God in seeking Him in their life. Also, in John 5:40, it is still the same that the Lord is telling the people to come to him to have eternal life. Eternal life is with the Lord God, it is in His hands and eternal life is not in the bible nor the bible cannot give us eternal lfie. The bible bow down to this in John 5:39.   These are how I do perceive that verse in giving glory to the Lord for He alone is the best Teacher that we can get, be it in this world or in His kingdom. I am sure that the Lord can tell us more and in this regard, I agree with you Ric in urging the brethren " Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding." God is real and alive, let us call to Him always and wait for God to reveal to us the truth. Our own understanding is not bad if it always gorifies no other, except the Lord God. [b][i]ric32bailey &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]I am only thinking that to take the “letter” of the word, we would encounter many contradictions. The is the pitfall of many people that I suppose we have to avoid. In the following, where does humility come from? 2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding. I am reminded of the warning: Prov 3:5 “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” [/quote]
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almario1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 16, 2006 2:33:16 PM
Adlemi, I think you have omitted "If my people, which are called by my name." Can you explain this please?
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 17, 2006 1:56:53 AM
Adlemi, What do you mean by "if God comes your way physically"? What actions did the disciples take before Christ chose them to be His disciples? It seems like many scriptures previously cited are not being addressed.   [quote] From:  [i]Adlemi Sotnas &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:43:40 -0700[/i] [quote]2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.              If I were to be ask on the above verse, I would digest it as follows:         1.  Humble ourselves before whom? Of course, before the Lord God.         2.  Pray to whom? Of course to the Lord God.         3.  Seek whom? Seek the face of the Lord God.         4.  Turn from what? Turn from our wicked ways.         The first four actions must come from us and we should have to do these first.         5. Who will hear from heaven after doing the items 1 to 4 above? The Lord said " then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal  their land. "         This verse of the bible clearly testifies that there is really God, that action for God to come to and to respond to us must first come from us. It is also very clear in here that it is none other than the Lord God whom we, people, must seek, not anything else. As I see it, people are always seeking the verses of the bible to enrich their mind knowledge about God instead of coming in and calling to the Lord God in seeking Him in their life. Also, in John 5:40, it is still the same that the Lord is telling the people to come to him to have eternal life. Eternal life is with the Lord God, it is in His hands and eternal life is not in the bible nor the bible cannot give us eternal lfie. The bible bow down to this in John 5:39.         These are how I do perceive that verse in giving glory to the Lord for He alone is the best Teacher that we can get, be it in this world or in His kingdom. I am sure that the Lord can  tell us more and in this regard, I agree with you Ric in urging the brethren " Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding." God is real and alive, let us call to Him always and wait for God to reveal to us the truth. Our own understanding is not bad if it always gorifies no other, except the Lord God. ric32bailey &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; wrote: &gt; I am only thinking that to take the “letter” of the word, we would encounter many contradictions. The is the pitfall of many people that I suppose we have to avoid. In the following, where does humility come from? &gt; &gt; 2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways;  then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. &gt; &gt; Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding. I am reminded of the warning: &gt; &gt; Prov 3:5 “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 18, 2006 2:08:44 AM
if we are to talk to this in the biblical time as mentioned, it was the people of Israel in generalL   If today, people of all walks of life. [b][i]almario1 &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]Adlemi, I think you have omitted "If my people, which are called by my name." Can you explain this please? [/quote]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 18, 2006 2:20:03 AM
 [b]"if God comes your way physically"[/b] - It is exactly what God did to apostle Paul beginning on his way to Damascus onwards unto his death.   [b]What actions did the disciples take before Christ chose them to be His disciples?[/b]   I'm sorry, I am not privy to this matter and tired of giving my perspective, but I am sure God can tell us should we call to Him rightly. [b]It seems like many scriptures previously cited are not being addressed[/b]. I know of only one who can addressed them rightly and I will try to pursue hearing from the Lord with respect to addressing bible verses. As they say, let the Lord be the one to explain His words in the bible for the Lord knows which among them are His. [b][i]Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]Adlemi, What do you mean by "if God comes your way physically"? What actions did the disciples take before Christ chose them to be His disciples? It seems like many scriptures previously cited are not being addressed.   [quote] From:  Adlemi Sotnas Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives Date:  Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:43:40 -0700 &gt; 2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. &gt;      &gt;      &gt;    If I were to be ask on the above verse, I would digest it as follows: &gt;      &gt;    1.  Humble ourselves before whom? Of course, before the Lord God. &gt;      &gt;    2.  Pray to whom? Of course to the Lord God. &gt;      &gt;    3.  Seek whom? Seek the face of the Lord God. &gt;      &gt;    4.  Turn from what? Turn from our wicked ways. &gt;      &gt;    The first four actions must come from us and we should have to do these first. &gt;      &gt;    5. Who will hear from heaven after doing the items 1 to 4 above? The Lord said " then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal  their land. " &gt;      &gt;    This verse of the bible clearly testifies that there is really God, that action for God to come to and to respond to us must first come from us. It is also very clear in here that it is none other than the Lord God whom we, people, must seek, not anything else. As I see it, people are always seeking the verses of the bible to enrich their mind knowledge about God instead of coming in and calling to the Lord God in seeking Him in their life. Also, in John 5:40, it is still the same that the Lord is telling the people to come to him to have eternal life. Eternal life is with the Lord God, it is in His hands and eternal life is not in the bible nor the bible cannot give us eternal lfie. The bible bow down to this in John 5:39. &gt;      &gt;    These are how I do perceive that verse in giving glory to the Lord for He alone is the best Teacher that we can get, be it in this world or in His kingdom. I am sure that the Lord can  tell us more and in this regard, I agree with you Ric in urging the brethren " Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding." God is real and alive, let us call to Him always and wait for God to reveal to us the truth. Our own understanding is not bad if it always gorifies no other, except the Lord God. &gt; &gt; &gt; ric32bailey wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; I am only thinking that to take the “letter” of the word, we would encounter many contradictions. The is the pitfall of many people that I suppose we have to avoid. In the following, where does humility come from? &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways;  then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding. I am reminded of the warning: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Prov 3:5 “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 362

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Posted: Jan 18, 2006 5:25:33 AM
Adlemi, God spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus. He didn't manifest Himself in bodily form to Paul. Are you saying God must physically manifest Himself to someone in order for that person to be considered His chosen?  I asked you what actions the disciples took before Christ chose them to follow Him because you said we must act first before God acts. As far as I know, they were going about their daily routine of doing their respective jobs. [quote] From:  [i]Adlemi Sotnas &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:20:04 -0700[/i] [quote] "if God comes your way physically" - It is exactly what God did to apostle Paul beginning on his way to Damascus onwards unto his death.         What actions did the disciples take before Christ chose them to be His disciples?      I'm sorry, I am not privy to this matter and tired of giving my perspective, but I am sure God can tell us should we call to Him rightly.    It seems like many scriptures previously cited are not being addressed. I know of only one who can addressed them rightly and I will try to pursue hearing from the Lord with respect to addressing bible verses. As they say, let the Lord be the one to explain His words in the bible for the Lord knows which among them are His. Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; wrote: &gt; Adlemi, &gt; What do you mean by "if God comes your way physically"? &gt; What actions did the disciples take before Christ chose them to be His disciples? &gt; It seems like many scriptures previously cited are not being addressed. &gt; &gt; &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  From:  Adlemi Sotnas &gt; &gt;  Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt;  To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt;  Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt;  Date:  Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:43:40 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; 2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt;  &gt;    If I were to be ask on the above verse, I  would digest it as follows: &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt;  &gt;    1.  Humble ourselves before whom? Of course, before the Lord God. &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt;  &gt;    2.  Pray to whom? Of course to the Lord God. &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt;  &gt;    3.  Seek whom? Seek the face of the Lord God. &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt;  &gt;    4.  Turn from what? Turn from our wicked ways. &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt;  &gt;    The first four actions must come from us and we should have to do these first. &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt;  &gt;    5. Who will hear from heaven after doing the items 1 to 4 above? The Lord said " then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal  their land. " &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt;  &gt;    This verse of the bible clearly testifies that there is really God,  that action for God to come to and to respond to us must first come from us. It is also very clear in here that it is none other than the Lord God whom we, people, must seek, not anything else. As I see it, people are always seeking the verses of the bible to enrich their mind knowledge about God instead of coming in and calling to the Lord God in seeking Him in their life. Also, in John 5:40, it is still the same that the Lord is telling the people to come to him to have eternal life. Eternal life is with the Lord God, it is in His hands and eternal life is not in the bible nor the bible cannot give us eternal lfie. The bible bow down to this in John 5:39. &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt;  &gt;    These are how I do perceive that verse in giving glory to the Lord for He alone is the best Teacher that we can get, be it in this world or in His kingdom. I am sure that the Lord can  tell us more and in this regard, I agree with you Ric in urging the brethren  " Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding." God is real and alive, let us call to Him always and wait for God to reveal to us the truth. Our own understanding is not bad if it always gorifies no other, except the Lord God. &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; ric32bailey wrote: &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; I am only thinking that to take the “letter” of the word, we would encounter many contradictions. The is the pitfall of many people that I suppose we have to avoid. In the following, where does humility come from? &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; 2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways;  then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;  &gt; Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding. I am reminded of the warning: &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Prov 3:5 “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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aidatcortez
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 138

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Posted: Jan 18, 2006 9:49:01 AM
Adlemi, You know, if I or anyone of us here at the PC would answer the question of bro. Almario from the Bible, maybe 12hrs. is not sufficient for us to explain it fully. But look at you! in the blink of an eye, buong-buo, you have explained 2 Chronicles 7:14. Hindi mo ba nararamdaman na hinuhuli ka lang niya kung papano mo sasagutin ang kaniyang tanong? 2Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." You said we should depend on God about "revelations." Was it God's revelation to you that "His people" are the people of Israel? Wasn't it that it was them that crucified and nailed Him on the cross? Alam mo Adlemi, may pinagaralan ka naman kaya siguro, naiintindihan mo na hindi maganda yung kumbaga eh nakikipagusap ka sa mga tao na iba ang pananaw kesa sayo. Sinasakop mo na ang buong araw namin sa mga posts mo at kami ang nawawalan ng space dahil sayo, at nawawalan na tuloy kami ng oras na magaralan ng husto dahil naguguluhan kami sa mga sine share mo. Sabi mo, ang dapat ay dumiretso kami sa Dios. Ano ba sa palagay mo ang ginagawa namin? Sa pisikal mang buhay, hindi ba hindi maganda yung humahalo tayo sa usapan ng iba? Sana naman, maintindihan mo na hindi ka namin kailangan dito kasi hindi mo naiintindihan ang mga pinaguusapan namin. Kung sa palagay mo ang mga ipinahahayag mo ang tama at kami ay mali, nirerespeto namin ang opinyon mo pero sana naman, respektuhin mo rin naman at tanggapin na iba ang sa amin kaya useless na makipagaralan ka sa amin. Ayaw mo makinig sa amin at kami naman din ay hindi makikinig sayo kaya hindi ba mas maganda kung maghihiwalay tayo? At dahil sa Pc naman ito, hindi ba mas may karapatan na kami ang manatili dito? Sana huwag mo isali ang sa pisikal dito. Sabi mo nga best friend mo ako, pero sa espirituwal, hindi tayo siguro magtatagpo. Huwag mo na pangaraping maturuan kami kung iyon ang intensiyon mo para sa amin kasi sinisiguro ko sayo, hindi kami makikinig saiyo kaya sayang lang ang panahon mo. Sa palagay ko mataas ang pinagaralan mo kaya siguro naman, kaya mong abutin ang mga ipinararating ko saiyo. Maraming salamat, Adlemi. Magsulatan tayo araw-araw ng personal. ok? Thank you talaga sayo......Pag nagbakasyon kami bibisitahin ka namin sa bahay mo, pwede ba?....
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 18, 2006 10:30:31 PM
Quote: ______________________________   [b]God spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus. He didn't manifest Himself in bodily form to Paul. Are you saying God must physically manifest Himself to someone in order for that person to be considered His chosen?  [/b] ______________________________   Definitely No, Steve. Truly, God didn't manifest Himself in bodily form to Paul in the same manner that God, also, didn't manifest Himself in bodily form to Moses, but both dealings of the Lord to Moses and Paul were in the physical way. The coming of the Lord in the physical way simply means that the Lord is dealing/manifesting Himself with physical beings ( like Moses,Paul, and others including us today ) in such a way that God may both use physical and spiritual things. Audible voice and fire in the burning bush were used by God to speak with Moses while light and audible voice were used by God to speak with Paul. Angels were used by God to the shepherds in announcing the birth of the Messiah, physical body created by the Holy Spirit were used by God to manifest Himself for a very long, long time to the apostles, to the people of Israel and adjoining nations, to the disciples, to the Romans, etc. Dreams were used by God to Joseph, Gideon, Nebuchadnezzar, David, Solomon, and other. God's ways of manifesting may not be fully enumerated by any one. God will not manifest Himself to any one until the coming of the Kingdom of God in the judgment day because whoever may see God in His real being or whoever may hear the real audible voice of God will surely die. In this regard, every manifestation/dealing of the Lord to a living human being  (known as the coming of the Lord in the physical way) is coupled with the use by God of physical and spiritual things, beings, matters, etc. to avoid death on the part of the chosen of God. Chosen of God may also mean witness of God to mankind.   One thing is sure Steve, that God will manifest Himself to His chosen either of the two above, physically in bodily form (but remember that the bodily form is not the Lord God, but only a vessel and such bodily form will remain flesh) spiritual form, or combination of both. But I do not say the these are the only means that God is using to mankind in manifesting Himself to us, remember that God is infinite and His ways are also infinite. For a person to be considered chosen of God, the Lord God is his Teacher/Good Pastor. If you have time you can visit [url=http://www.christiansonline.cc/]www.christiansonline.cc[/url] and look at the forum board "The True Marks of the True Church of the Lord". I hope it can help you a lot. Besides, the Lord God will be the One to say that you are one among His chosen. No one can say he is a chosen of God unless he is under the Shepherding of the Lord and if you are under His Shepherding, for sure that God is manifesting to you not only once, but for as long as you place yourself under the custody of God. Refer to the book of Acts and see Paul's life.   [b]Quote:[/b] [b]  ______________________________[/b]   [b]I asked you what actions the disciples took before Christ chose them to follow Him because you said we must act first before God acts. As far as I know, they were going about their daily routine of doing their respective jobs. ______________________________[/b]   I agree with you that they were going about their daily routine during that time, but one thing that we must not forget Steve is that the Lord has the capability to look at the whole stretch of the road that we are traveling in our life up to the point of our death and beyond death, the Lord knows how are we to react and to decide on all the trials that He will put before us. Not because the Lord called them to follow Him simply meant that they were already considered chosen of the Lord. Their willingness to follow and obey the Lord rendered them to be the chosen of the Lord.   Actually the Lord is calling the whole of mankind to come and follow him for them to be eased with their burden and to have eternal life. Our will to follow and obey the Lord will render us to be His chosen,   I see your point here that the Lord is the One who did the first shot and we just follow suit. I mean, the Lord is calling all of us to come to Him and to follow Him and this is the first shot that I refer to. Our will now to follow Him and obey Him is our action to the Lord's call. We become chosen of God because we obey the Lord in general.   Do you mean with your saying " the Lord first choose me" that it means that the Lord choose you to be His chosen already without you doing anything at all or without you responding to His call or to His choosing [b]you?[/b] [b][/b]  [b][i]Steve Jorns &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]Adlemi, God spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus. He didn't manifest Himself in bodily form to Paul. Are you saying God must physically manifest Himself to someone in order for that person to be considered His chosen?  I asked you what actions the disciples took before Christ chose them to follow Him because you said we must act first before God acts. As far as I know, they were going about their daily routine of doing their respective jobs. [quote] From:  Adlemi Sotnas Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives Date:  Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:20:04 -0700 &gt;  "if God comes your way physically" - It is exactly what God did to apostle Paul beginning on his way to Damascus onwards unto his death. &gt;      &gt;    What actions did the disciples take before Christ chose them to be His disciples? &gt;   &gt;    I'm sorry, I am not privy to this matter and tired of giving my perspective, but I am sure God can tell us should we call to Him rightly. &gt; &gt;    It seems like many scriptures previously cited are not being addressed. &gt; &gt; I know of only one who can addressed them rightly and I will try to pursue hearing from the Lord with respect to addressing bible verses. As they say, let the Lord be the one to explain His words in the bible for the Lord knows which among them are His. &gt; Steve Jorns wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; Adlemi, &gt; &gt; What do you mean by "if God comes your way physically"? &gt; &gt; What actions did the disciples take before Christ chose them to be His disciples? &gt; &gt; It seems like many scriptures previously cited are not being addressed. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;   &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  From:  Adlemi Sotnas &gt; &gt; &gt;  Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt;  Date:  Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:43:40 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; 2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;    If I were to be ask on the above verse, I  would digest it as follows: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;    1.  Humble ourselves before whom? Of course, before the Lord God. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;    2.  Pray to whom? Of course to the Lord God. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;    3.  Seek whom? Seek the face of the Lord God. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;    4.  Turn from what? Turn from our wicked ways. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;    The first four actions must come from us and we should have to do these first. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;    5. Who will hear from heaven after doing the items 1 to 4 above? The Lord said " then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal  their land. " &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;    This verse of the bible clearly testifies that there is really God,  that action for God to come to and to respond to us must first come from us. It is also very clear in here that it is none other than the Lord God whom we, people, must seek, not anything else. As I see it, people are always seeking the verses of the bible to enrich their mind knowledge about God instead of coming in and calling to the Lord God in seeking Him in their life. Also, in John 5:40, it is still the same that the Lord is telling the people to come to him to have eternal life. Eternal life is with the Lord God, it is in His hands and eternal life is not in the bible nor the bible cannot give us eternal lfie. The bible bow down to this in John 5:39. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;      &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;    These are how I do perceive that verse in giving glory to the Lord for He alone is the best Teacher that we can get, be it in this world or in His kingdom. I am sure that the Lord can  tell us more and in this regard, I agree with you Ric in urging the brethren  " Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding." God is real and alive, let us call to Him always and wait for God to reveal to us the truth. Our own understanding is not bad if it always gorifies no other, except the Lord God. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; ric32bailey wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; I am only thinking that to take the “letter” of the word, we would encounter many contradictions. The is the pitfall of many people that I suppose we have to avoid. In the following, where does humility come from? &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; 2 Chro 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways;  then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;  &gt; Therefore, I think let God reveal to us His overall plan of salvation and the role of man, if ever there is any, rather than trying to comprehend it on our own understanding. I am reminded of the warning: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Prov 3:5 “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt;[/quote]
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