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Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives

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fil3232003
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 494

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Posted: Dec 23, 2005 6:44:19 AM
[color=darkblue]Hello sfchristian, I hope I understand what you mean by, “… i still fail in some aspects in life,” and I suppose these concern success, be it material (wealth), physical (health), emotional (recognition or satisfaction of ego like being looked up by people because of some worthwhile endeavor). I believe it is still our “responsibility” based on our intelligence (but there are different kinds of talent: arts, business, science, social, etc.), patience, self-discipline, attitude, mind-set, values, ideals, and so forth. Diverse things come into these aspects of life. We discover these when we talk and observe other people, and there we find the “difference.” I believe this is the “kingdom” that God is referring to in: Rev 1:6 And hath made us [size=18]kings[/size] and [size=18]priests[/size] unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. What is important to God is not the kind of success the Natural Man (1 Cor. 2:14) understands. But rather the way “we act as KINGS in control of the faculties in our respective kingdom.” This refers to whatever station in life we are in. God does not count the “size of our kingdom,” (PHYSICAL LIFE) but whether “we are in CONTROL as king…” Real Christians have different stations is life, like, “mere employees, big and small businessmen, business executives, professionals, etc.” To God what counts is, “are we in CONTROL of our physical life…” so that our two kinds of life: PHYSICAL and SPIRITUAL walk together “in agreement.” Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed? For our SPIRITUAL LIFE, for the position of “priesthood” (1 Pet. 2:9) God expects total dependence on Him. For our PHYSICAL LIFE, “as king” it is our responsibility to be in control. We cannot be “king” if we are not in control of our physical life, but rather a “slave.” But God is creating circumstances with His foreknowledge for us to MAKE DECISION. Foreknowledge COMES BEFORE our decision and this is the “free will” that God has not taken from us. The resolution to all these questions regarding “free will” is WITHIN us to answer. Are we not the ones MAKING DECISION? [/color]
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fil3232003
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 24, 2005 3:51:22 PM
[color=darkblue]God is omniscient that means all-knowing, that even before the creation of the world He already knew what would happen to mankind, to the world, and to the universe. This is truth. In like manner, perhaps no one among us can deny that we are not being controlled from making our choice -- our decision. Therefore, this must also be truth. When Jesus said: Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, [size=18]Except ye be converted[/size], and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. It is our decision humble ourselves. I suppose no one among us will say it is God’s decision. God is only creating circumstances for us to make that decision. Therefore, the way I see it, [b]FOREKNOWLEDGE[/b] that belongs to God comes before [b]DECISION[/b] whose prerogative belongs to the person (to us). Let us consider the following: Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, [size=18]WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION[/size] with fear and trembling. Our role in “working out our salvation” is our DECISION to...humble...ourselves... Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and [size=18]HATE NOT [/size]his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple God revealed to us that these “relatives” refer to soulishness in the following: Deut 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, WHICH IS AS THINE OWN SOUL… Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, [size=18]LET HIM DENY HIMSELF, AND TAKE UP HIS CROSS, AND FOLLOW ME. [/size] (Plus many more verses) [size=12][/size][/color]
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sandra3102
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 25, 2005 2:59:40 PM
This is what I read in the Holy Bible: God is omniscient at the same time He is just. Pro 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work. Zep 3:5 The [size=18]just LORD [/size] is in the midst thereof; [size=18]he will not do iniquity[/size]: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not… Perhaps no one can blame or find fault on Him except Satan and his devils. Yes, many people will blame and accuse Him of injustice if, [size=18]with His foreknowledge He controls the mind and action of the “few” He knows they will believe in Him. [/size]But as it is, [size=18]it is themselves who will take the blame because of their unwise decision of not believing in Him (free will). [/size] Regarding the people who did not have the chance to hear the truth, is it impossible with God to “vividly replay their life” where they would see for themselves that they would not accept the truth anyway? I think God will say the following as He did to Job: Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; In the end, God will be praised by ALL because His justice and fair dealing will be realized and fully comprehended. Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things [size=12][size=18]in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth[/size][/size].
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 29, 2005 12:32:34 AM
Then, what about the Potter having all power over what He makes from the clay? One vessel unto honor and one unto dishonor? [quote] From:  [i]"fil3232003" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Sat, 24 Dec 2005 00:51:22 -0700[/i] [quote]God is omniscient that means all-knowing, that even before the creation of the world He already knew what would happen to mankind, to the world, and to the universe. This is truth. In like manner, perhaps no one among us can deny that we are not being controlled from making our choice -- our decision. Therefore, this must also be truth. When Jesus said: Mat 18:3  And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. It is our decision humble ourselves. I suppose no one among us will say it is God’s decision. God is only creating circumstances for us to make that decision. Therefore, the way I see it, FOREKNOWLEDGE that belongs to God comes before DECISION whose prerogative belongs to the person (to us). Let us consider the following: Phi 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling. Our role in “working out our salvation” is our DECISION to...humble...ourselves... Luk 14:26  If any man come to me, and HATE NOT his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple God revealed to us that these “relatives” refer to soulishness in the following: Deut 13:6  If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, WHICH IS AS THINE OWN SOUL… Mat 16:24  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, LET HIM DENY HIMSELF, AND TAKE UP HIS CROSS, AND FOLLOW ME. (Plus many more verses) [/quote] [/quote]
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Steve
Joined Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 74
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Posted: Dec 29, 2005 2:14:54 AM
Sandra, In one sentence you say He is controlling the mind and actions of the "few" and then in the next sentence you say free will. Please clarify.
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sandra3102
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 29, 2005 7:56:26 AM
[color=blue]Steve, Thank you for calling my attention to this which was never intended to be the meaning I wanted to convey. What I have in mind are the CIRCUMSTANCES, EVENTS, AND CONDITIONS for His chosen to make their decision LEADING TO SPIRITUAL PERFECTION. Otherwise, I should not have quoted: Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling. (Plus several verses where our Lord clearly requires us to make decisions for ourselves.) I hope you can bear with me on this error, just a slip of the mind, so to speak. But very clear to me, and I can vouch on this, that God never controls my mind and feeling on my decisions. Again, thank you. [/color]
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mrwilson37
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 29, 2005 5:22:32 PM
Yes we have freewill in our physical life. What we should not forget is as long as the situation will not bring our spiritual life in danger. Let us not forget the JOY we feel coz we are in the 1st heaven.  [b][i]sfchristian &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]greetings from san francisco, california! i have a question regarding the following topic: Do we have freewill in our physical lives? i read several replies and postings regarding this topic and came across a response that we were given 'faculties' in order for us to decide what the best things are that we can do for our physical lives. i tried using my knowledge, seek advice from people, weigh possible outcomes, and say a small prayer that the Lord guide me with things that i have to do with a verse in mind that reads "....in all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy path." However, in most cases,no matter how i use my intellect with some knowledge derived from my education, readings, and solicited advices, i still fail in some aspects in life. what are the things we can do in addition to using the 'faculties' provided to us by the Lord in order for us not to only practice freewill but come up with the best possible results in our struggle in physical life? [/quote] Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/photos/*http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//page?.file=calendar_splash.html&amp;.dir=]Photo Calendars[/url]. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
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Steve
Joined Oct 27, 2005
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Posted: Jan 05, 2006 2:05:58 AM
sandra, Aren't our spiritual decisions made because of Philippians 2:13?
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sandra3102
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 05, 2006 7:10:03 AM
[color=blue]Steve, You brought a very good point from man’s point of view. Very clearly it is as if “to will and to do” comes from God for “his good pleasure.” Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. It directly contradicts: Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Again, with human understanding, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” is man’s exercise of “free will” TO HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of “free will” whether we can feel God’s direct control of our mind and feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for ourselves. I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question.[/color]
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 05, 2006 9:42:17 PM
sandra, You are correct. With human understanding, working out our salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? [quote] From:  [i]"sandra3102" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700[/i] [quote]Steve, You brought a very good point from man’s point of view. Very clearly it is as if “to will and to do” comes from God for “his good pleasure.” Phil 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. It directly contradicts: Phil 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Again, with human understanding, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” is man’s exercise of “free will” TO HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of “free will” whether we can feel God’s direct control of our mind and feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for ourselves. I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. [/quote] [/quote]
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sandra3102
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 06, 2006 5:18:58 AM
[quote:f6697820b7="Steve_Jorns1"]sandra, You are correct. With human understanding, working out our salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? [color=darkblue]Steve, Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we do it with God’s guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is [size=18]NOT[/size] God’s decision.[/color] [quote] From:  [i]"sandra3102" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700[/i] [quote]Steve, You brought a very good point from man’s point of view. Very clearly it is as if “to will and to do” comes from God for “his good pleasure.” Phil 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. It directly contradicts: Phil 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Again, with human understanding, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” is man’s exercise of “free will” TO HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of “free will” whether we can feel God’s direct control of our mind and feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for ourselves. I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. [/quote] [/quote][/quote]
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 06, 2006 5:51:17 AM
sandra, I agree, We can do nothing without God's guidance and power. Are you saying the Potter has no power over the clay? Is it the clay that decides what it is formed into? Does the clay decide it will be made into a vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? God is the One who gives us a new heart. With the new heart we are converted into little children. Not of our own doing but of His.  [quote] From:  [i]"sandra3102" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:19:00 -0700[/i] [quote] Steve_Jorns1 wrote: &gt; sandra, &gt; You are correct. With human understanding, working out our salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we do it with God’s guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is NOT God’s decision. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From:  "sandra3102" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; Date:  Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You brought a very good point from man’s point of view. Very clearly it is as if “to will and to do” comes from God for “his good pleasure.” &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It directly contradicts: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with human  understanding, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” is man’s exercise of “free will” TO HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of “free will” whether we can feel God’s direct control of our mind and feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for ourselves. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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sandra3102
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 06, 2006 6:33:38 AM
[color=blue]Steve, I don't know what each one of us here feel. Which comes first, humbling ourselves before God or His giving us heart a new heart?[/color] [quote:51be9f038f="Steve_Jorns1"]sandra, I agree, We can do nothing without God's guidance and power. Are you saying the Potter has no power over the clay? Is it the clay that decides what it is formed into? Does the clay decide it will be made into a vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? God is the One who gives us a new heart. With the new heart we are converted into little children. Not of our own doing but of His.  [quote] From:  [i]"sandra3102" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:19:00 -0700[/i] [quote] Steve_Jorns1 wrote: &gt; sandra, &gt; You are correct. With human understanding, working out our salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we do it with God’s guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is NOT God’s decision. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From:  "sandra3102" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; Date:  Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; You brought a very good point from man’s point of view. Very clearly it is as if “to will and to do” comes from God for “his good pleasure.” &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It directly contradicts: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with human  understanding, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” is man’s exercise of “free will” TO HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of “free will” whether we can feel God’s direct control of our mind and feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for ourselves. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote][/quote]
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 06, 2006 9:07:00 PM
All I know is it is written in 2Corinthians 12:21 "and lest, when I come again, [b]my God will humble me[/b] among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." [quote] From:  [i]"sandra3102" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:33:39 -0700[/i] [quote]Steve, I don't know what each one of us here feel. Which comes first, humbling ourselves before God or His giving us heart a new heart? Steve_Jorns1 wrote: &gt; sandra, &gt; I agree, We can do nothing without God's guidance and power. Are you saying the Potter has no power over the clay? Is it the clay that decides what it is formed into? Does the clay decide it will be made into a vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? God is the One who gives us a new heart. With the new heart we are converted into little children. Not of our own doing but of His.  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From:  "sandra3102" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; Date:  Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:19:00 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve_Jorns1 wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; sandra, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; You are correct. With human understanding, working out our salvation with fear and trembling is exercising our "free will." At the same time, human wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Is it not? &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; Yes indeed it is foolishness. But the difference is that we do it with God’s guidance and power, and this is PRECEDED BY OUR DECISION TO HUMBLE OURSELVES. Humbling oneself is NOT God’s decision. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; From:  "sandra3102" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Reply-To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; To:  bibletalk@purechristianity.org &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Subject:  RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; Date:  Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:10:04 -0700 &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; Steve, &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; You brought a very good point from man’s point of view. Very clearly it is as if “to will and to do” comes from God for “his good pleasure.” &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; It directly contradicts: &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; Phil  2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with human  understanding, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” is man’s exercise of “free will” TO HUMBLE ONESELF so we can act according to His will. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; I believe it is ourselves who can answer this question of “free will” whether we can feel God’s direct control of our mind and feeling or, just with the circumstances surrounding our life, we decide for ourselves. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; I hope God reveals to us the answer to this question. &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [/quote] [/quote]
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fil3232003
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Jan 07, 2006 3:54:16 PM
This is what I read in the Holy Bible, and I hope it is God’s revelation regarding foreknowledge and free will: In the beginning God was alone, and He created man in His own image in order to have eternal companions. The image of God in man is Jesus Christ, the man; God in His human manifestation, to perform two roles: As Father to fulfill His testament with His death; and as Son, to show the way by example. God is omniscient that is, having foreknowledge knowing everything that would happen in the future, including the people who would reject and accept Him. This is man’s decision that God would never get hold of that is why it is written in several verses: Jam 4:10 [size=18]Humble yourselves [/size]in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. Mat 18:4 [size=18]Whosoever therefore shall humble himself [/size]as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and [size=18]he that shall humble himself[/size] shall be exalted. 1 Pet 5:6 [size=18]Humble yourselves [/size]therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: To take the word of God to the “letter” (or literally), the following would contradict the foregoing verses. 2 Cor 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my [size=18]God will humble me [/size]among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. Similar several verses are written, like the “potter doing whatever he wants with the clay” in the book of Jeremiah, plus many more seemingly contradictory verses. On the whole, the individual person has the answer whether he/she is being controlled by God, or only the circumstances presented are conducive to make the decision. The [color=darkblue][u][b]decision of the chosen humbling [/b][/u][/color]themselves, gives God [size=18]a free hand [/size]to “form them in His image, taking the role of the Eldest Son, as model. For God to make the decision and deprive the chosen of their free will would virtually make them robots. Impartiality dictates and God is just, that His perfect and supreme glory can only be realized if His chosen decide for themselves. [size=12][/size][size=12][/size][size=12][/size][size=12][/size]
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Steve
Joined Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 74
Location:Chicago

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Posted: Jan 09, 2006 10:29:35 PM
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, [b]I never knew you[/b]: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." It appears as though entering heaven is dependent upon the Lord knowing(choosing) us, not us choosing Him. Isn't the decision the Potter's, not the clay's?
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fil3232003
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 494

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Posted: Jan 10, 2006 6:04:22 AM
I think this subject boils down to the following: FIRST - God’s omniscience or foreknowledge of knowing before hand who will accept His love SECOND - God’s offer of love, the result of the Testament promised which He fulfilled THIRD - Acceptance of God’s love FOURTH – God’s “free hand to work” on the chosen. The FIRST is the basis of: • Joh 15:16 “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.” The SECOND is found in several articles in the website. The THIRD is the basis of man’s decision: • Mat 18:4 [size=18]Whosoever therefore shall humble himself [/size][/size]as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. • James 4:10 [size=18]Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord[/size][/size], and he shall lift you up. • Rev 3:5 [size=18]He that overcometh[/size][/size], the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. • Plus many more verses The FOURTH is the basis of God’s “free hand” to work on the life of the chosen: • Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for [size=18]without me ye can do nothing[/size][/size]. • 2 Cor 12:21 And lest, when I come again, [size=18]my God will humble me [/size][/size]among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have…” • The parable of Potter and the [size=18]clay[/size][/size]. • Plus many more verses until the chosen is made perfect in the eyes of God when it is time take him/her with Him in eternity
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mrwilson37
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 172

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Posted: Jan 10, 2006 7:58:50 AM
Let us not forget that God knows those people who can humble themselves. This is the only key to know God next his words in order to be saved. It is our own decision that we will and since nothing is impossible to him he knows what will our decision be. This happened thru circumstances he made. Those people who will not accept God in any way coz whatever circumstances may be, humbling oneselves has no room for them. In our case God has made circumstances in our life coz he can see in that situation we will humble ourselves. [b][i]Steve &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]Matthew 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." It appears as though entering heaven is dependent upon the Lord knowing(choosing) us, not us choosing Him. Isn't the decision the Potter's, not the clay's? [/quote] [url=http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=37474/*http://promo.yahoo.com/broadband/ ]Yahoo! DSL[/url] Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
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art.barga
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 290

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Posted: Jan 10, 2006 1:48:17 PM
[b]This is just a supplement to Bro. Fil's postings[/b] Isaiah 64:8 "But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. Romans 9:21 "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [b]Lord Jesus who is the potter has the power to shape the clay to show His power and glory. This applies to all His creation and does not exclude anybody, this is for everyone. This will also seen in verse[/b]  Isaiah 45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and  create evil: I the LORD do all these things."[b][/b] [b]In physical life we have to use our faculties to shape and control our life. [/b][b]Although, sometimes things do not turn as we expected them even we did our best to influence the outcome. I think, those that we do not have control that makes us failure i.e people who decides or factors that dictate the results. I believe there will be a slim chance that we will fail if the dealings is within our boundaries and if we thoroughly done our homework.[/b] [b]But when it comes to choosing our spiritual life He has given us the freewill as it is written:[/b] John 6:37 “[b][u]All that the Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME[/u][/b]; and [b][u]him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."[/u][/b] John 5:24” Verily, verily, I say unto you[b], [/b][b][u]He [/u][/b][b][u]that [/u][/b][b][u]heareth[/u][/b][b][u] my word[/u][/b][b][u], and believeth [/u][/b] [b][u]on him that sent me, hath everlasting life[/u][/b][b][u],[/u][/b] and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. [b]In the above verses, God's chosen were chosen by Him and at the [/b] [b]same time they should will to hear and keep/follow the word of God to [/b] [b]see Jesus as the son of God so that they might believe that sent him. [/b] [b]Even those predestinated before the foundation of the world the Lord as [/b] [b]revealed to the brethren, God is creating the circumstances based from [/b] [b]His foreknowledge because as it is written. [/b]   John 6:64[b] [/b]"But there are some of you that believe not[b]. [u]For Jesus knew from the [/u][/b] [b][u]beginning who they were that believed not , and who should betray him.[/u][/b] [b][/b]  [b]God has the foreknowledge of whom shall believe on Him. The believer of HIm should will [/b] [b]to hear and follow the words/commandments of God:[/b]   Matthew 18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, [b][u]Except ye be converted[/u][/b], and [b][u]become as little children,  [/u][/b] [b][u]ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.[/u][/b] [b][u][/u][/b]   Mark 12:29 “And [b][u]Jesus answered[/u][/b] him, [b][u]The first of all the commandments is[/u][/b], [b][/b] [url=mid://00000096/mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20SettingsArt%20BargaMy%20Documentskjvkjv.chm::/B05C006.htm#V4][b]Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:[/b][/url][b] [/b]"   Mark 12:30 “And [b][u]thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, [/u][/b] [b][u]and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength[/u][/b]: [b][u]this is the first commandment."[/u][/b] [b][u][/u][/b]  Mark 12:31 [b]"[u]And the second is like, namely this, [/u][/b][url=mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20Settingsart.bargaMy%20DocumentsART%20-Documentskjvkjv.chm::/B03C019.htm#V18][b]Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/b][/url][u][b] [/b][/u] [u][b]There is none other commandment greater than these. [/b][/u]   [b]Eventually to arrive to:[/b]   John 6:64 [b]"[/b]And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that[u] [b]no man can come unto me, except [/b][/u] [u][b]it were given unto him of my Father." [/b][/u] [b][/b]  [b]Thus follows the recognition of the one true God[/b]   Mat 16:17  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: [b][u]for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.[/u][/b]    1John 5:5 "Who is [b]he that overcometh the world, but [u]he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?[/u][/b]    [b]Questions :[/b]   [b]Are we now an overcomer? Did we believe Jesus is the son of God? Did we hear and keep [/b] [b]His words and greatest commandments? Do we speak His language?[/b]  
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 362

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Posted: Jan 10, 2006 10:00:23 PM
No way do I deny the scriptures you have cited. It is written in Romans 9:19 "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For [b]who hath resisted his will[/b]?" In Matthew 6:10 "Thy kingdom come. [b]Thy will be done in earth[/b], as it is in heaven." Isn't His will going to be done no matter what "our will" might be? Isn't it His will to make some unto honor and some unto dishonor? Even our faith(what we believe) is a gift of God. It is not of ourselves so that we cannot boast. [quote] From:  [i]"Art Barga" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:48:17 -0700[/i] [quote]This  is just a supplement to Bro. Fil's postings Isaiah 64:8  "But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and  we all are the work of thy hand. Romans 9:21  "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one  vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Lord  Jesus who is the potter has the power to shape the clay to show His power and  glory. This applies to all His creation and does not exclude anybody, this is  for everyone. This will also seen in verse  Isaiah  45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,  and  create evil: I the LORD do all these  things." In  physical life we have to use our faculties to shape and control our life.  Although, sometimes things do not  turn as we expected them even we did our best to influence the outcome. I think,  those that we do not have control that makes us failure i.e people who decides  or factors that dictate the results. I believe there will be a slim chance that  we will fail if the dealings is within our boundaries and if we thoroughly done  our homework. But  when it comes to choosing our spiritual life He has given us the freewill  as it is written: John 6:37 “All that the  Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh  to me I will in no wise cast out." John 5:24” Verily, verily, I say  unto you, He  that  heareth my  word, and believeth on him that sent me,  hath everlasting life, and shall not come  into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. In the above verses, God's chosen  were chosen by Him and at the same time they should will to  hear and keep/follow the word of God to see Jesus as the son of God so  that they might believe that sent him. Even  those predestinated before the foundation of the world the Lord as revealed to the brethren,  God is creating the circumstances based  from  His  foreknowledge because as it is written.    John  6:64 "But there are some of you that believe not.  For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not , and who  should betray him.   God has the  foreknowledge of whom shall believe on Him. The believer of HIm should  will to hear and  follow the words/commandments of God:   Matthew  18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be  converted,  and become as little  children,  ye shall not enter into the kingdom of  heaven.   Mark 12:29 “And Jesus  answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O  Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: (mid://00000096/mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20SettingsArt%20BargaMy%20Documentskjvkjv.chm::/B05C006.htm#V4) "   Mark 12:30 “And thou shalt love the Lord thy  God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and  with all thy strength: this is the first  commandment."   Mark 12:31 "And  the second is like, namely this, Thou  shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (mk:@MSITStore:C:Documents%20and%20Settingsart.bargaMy%20DocumentsART%20-Documentskjvkjv.chm::/B03C019.htm#V18) There is none  other commandment greater than these.   Eventually to arrive  to:   John  6:64 "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that  no man can come unto me, except it were given  unto him of my Father."   Thus follows the  recognition of the one true God   Mat 16:17  And  Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my  Father which is in heaven.    1John 5:5 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of  God?    Questions :   Are we now an overcomer? Did we  believe Jesus is the son of God? Did we hear and keep His words and greatest  commandments? Do we speak His language?   [/quote] [/quote]
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