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Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives

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Joined: Oct 27, 2005
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Location:Chicago
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Posted Dec 14, 2005 at 2:18:12 AM
Subject: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives
Do we have freewill in our physical lives? Did we choose the job we now have and the house we live in? Do we have freewill in our spiritual lives? Did we choose Jesus Christ as Saviour?
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sandra3102
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 14, 2005 11:19:28 AM
[color=blue]For our physical life: I suppose we have to know first what “free will” means. Does this not refer to our freedom of choice that NOBODY can control us as long as this is within the bounds of the laws, regulations, and ordinances of the government and its instrumentalities, of which God has entrusted man’s physical relationship with each other? We find this in: 1 Pet 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; 14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. 15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: 16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. 17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. Also, Roman 13:1-7 Now on the question: “Did we choose the job we now have and the house we live in?” God gave us all faculties necessary for our physical life and it is up for us to make use of all, or only partially, of these. The saying goes “Life is what we make it” fits well to this point in regard to the choice of job and the house we live in. (Just my thought on the matter.)[/color]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 14, 2005 3:00:22 PM
You are loud and clear in this part Sandie and I, too, agree with what you are saying below. Like what I said previously, our choice is our destiny and our choice is using our free will. We are one in this part. [b][i]sandra3102 &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote] Now on the question: &#8220;Did we choose the job we now have and the house we live in?&#8221; God gave us all faculties necessary for our physical life and it is up for us to make use of all, or only partially, of these. The saying goes &#8220;Life is what we make it&#8221; fits well to this point in regard to the choice of job and the house we live in. (Just my thought on the matter.) [/quote]
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Steve
Joined Oct 27, 2005
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Posted: Dec 15, 2005 2:03:43 AM
In Genesis 11, was it the people's freewill to stop building the city? In Genesis 20, was it Abimelech's will not to sin against God? In Genesis 21, was it Ishmael's freewill to make himself a great nation?
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fil3232003
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 15, 2005 6:02:15 AM
Just a thought: Does not God only have foreknowledge, but it is man who decides what to do (free will)? In the case of Abimelech, even with that dream that Sarah was the wife of Abraham, he could still have carnal knowledge with her. But he decided (free will) not to. The decision still belonged to Abimelech and not of God. [quote:ad2bf4de7a="Steve"] In Genesis 20, was it Abimelech's will not to sin against God? [/quote]
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adlemsot
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Posted: Dec 15, 2005 11:24:55 AM
Abimelech's fear to the God of Abraham prevented him to push through his carnal knowledge to Sarah. And that fear is Abilmelech practice of his free will and he was not forced by God to do such. Just an additional contribution.  [b][i]fil3232003 &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]Just a thought: Does not God only have foreknowledge, but it is man who decides what to do (free will)? In the case of Abimelech, even with that dream that Sarah was the wife of Abraham, he could still have carnal knowledge with her. But he decided (free will) not to. The decision still belonged to Abimelech and not of God. Steve wrote: [quote] In Genesis 20, was it Abimelech's will not to sin against God? [/quote] [/quote]
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Steve
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Posted: Dec 17, 2005 1:54:06 AM
I continue to only ask questions. Why did the LORD harden Pharaoh's heart? Exodus 7:13 “And he hardened Pharaoh’s heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.” Exodus 33:19 “And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.” Numbers 3:13 “because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine they shall be: I am the LORD.” Numbers 16:7 “and put fire therein, and put incense in them before the LORD tomorrow: and it shall be that the man whom the LORD doth choose, he shall be holy…” In light of Romans 9:11 “(for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) Verse 16 “So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.” Verse 18 “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Doesn't this say it is not of him that willeth?
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fil3232003
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 17, 2005 7:06:42 AM
[color=darkblue]Why did the LORD harden Pharaoh's heart? Exodus 7:13 “And he hardened Pharaoh’s heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.” Very clearly from man’s point of view (understanding or perception), it was the LORD who harden Pharaoh’s heart. It appears that God took Pharaoh’s free will in this case. I suppose God will demonstrate His “point of view” since He is speaking in parables (Ezek 20:49, Psa 78:2). The “language of God” has to be expounded by our LORD Himself (not man’s) and this He does by DEMONSTRATION: Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, HE EXPOUNDED ALL THINGS TO HIS DISCIPLES. Did not Jesus speak about “destroying the temple in three days?” Man’s point of view is the LITERAL TEMPLE. Jesus EXPOUNDED on this by “demonstration” when He died and rose again on the third day that the temple referred to is His body. Let us consider another illustration regarding God’s fault in His covenant: Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been FAULTLESS, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For FINDING FAULT with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Man’s point of view: God made the first covenant/old testament that had some “faults.” But where does the “fault” of God in the following? Deut 26:18 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest KEEP ALL his commandments.” God gave His commandments “to be kept or obeyed all.” Is it the fault of God for people “not obeying all? He gave this condition: Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. Does not the “fault” lie in the people who DID NOT SEE the purpose of God for His covenant? Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN. God’s purpose of the old covenant is TO CONVICT MAN OF HIS SINS. For man to see his unworthiness, and God is just waiting to implore for His mercy. Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, NO, NOT ONE: Rom 3:11 There is NONE THAT UNDERSTANDETH, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is NONE THAT DOETH GOOD, NO, NOT ONE. With man’s “intellect and feeling” he creates his OWN STANDARD and cannot see God’s Standard of “good and evil.” That is God’s purpose in His first/old covenant. IT IS TO CONVICT MAN OR BE AWARE OF HIS SINS. He knows MAN’S PRIDE, that is why God in the flesh, in His role as SON some people cannot even accept this: Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD? NONE IS GOOD, save one, that is, God. Don’t we think it is God’s way to wait for His revelation on EVERY WORD He uses, and try to overlook our own while waiting for His explanation by DEMONSTRATION? Very clearly therefore, the supposedly Old covenant with “faults” that needs to be “revised” turned out to be the “fault of man” for “not seeing” what God wants to reveal. This is God’s EXPLANATION of His “revised” covenant which He saw in Abel, Abraham, Moses, and all testament saints; but He cannot see on people professing to live in this New Testament: Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [size=18]Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [/size] Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. If the Old Testament, in man point of view has decayed and vanished, why were these people living long before Christ was born and died on the cross HAD THE PROMISE FOR THE NEW COVENANT? Perhaps now let us seek what God means when “He hardened Pharaoh’s heart. Did God really “took away Pharaoh’s free will” in that instance? I suppose, by demonstration, like God did in the case of the “temple” and “covenant with faults” He will reveal to us the question presented.[/color]
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fil3232003
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Posted: Dec 18, 2005 6:18:45 AM
Did God take man’s free will that He hardened Pharaoh’s heart? Let God give us the clue for the answer to the question: &#61558; Did God choose or only knew Jeremiah before he was born? Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I KNEW THEE; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. &#61558; Is it God’s prerogative or decision to humble ourselves and therefore believe in Him, thus, endowing us with divine knowledge and wisdom? Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, EXCEPT YE BE CONVERTED, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. &#61558; Is it God who chose us without our consent? Joh 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. &#61558; Did God change our “heart of stone into a heart of flesh” without our consent? Eze 36:26 A NEW HEART ALSO WILL I GIVE YOU, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. &#61558; The reverse of Ezek. 36:26 Exo 7:13 And HE HARDENED PHARAOH'S HEART, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. It appears that God is only creating circumstances for people to decide or exercise their free will. All these are based on His foreknowledge. After all is not God omniscient? And this is quite hard to understand without God’s divine revelation that everything that happens is for His glory.
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 18, 2005 2:53:48 PM
[quote] Did God take man¡¦s free will that He hardened Pharaoh¡¦s heart? Let God give us the clue for the answer to the question:   God is all knowing and God can forsee the end of the line we are threading on in our life. It was in this manner that God did forsee that even with the clusters of grave and severe trials that He, the Lord God, had continuously brought upon Egypt, Pharaoh didn't take heed to the call of the Lord God to him through Moses and Aaron.   In spite of the fact that God did forsee this Pharaoh's negative decision in advanced regarding His call to him, God did choose to continue to bring catastrophe to Egypt, hence, the meaning of God hardened Pharaoh's heart. [/quote] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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porfirioanakpawis
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Posted: Dec 19, 2005 10:57:18 AM
[quote]steve &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt; wroteI continue to only ask questions. Why did the LORD harden Pharaoh's heart?....Exodus 7:13 “And he hardened Pharaoh’s heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.”....Exodus 33:19 “And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.....”Do we have freewill in our physical lives?...unquote:[b][i]sandra &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote:I suppose we have to know first what “free will” means. Also, Roman 13:1-7...Now on the question:...“Did we choose the job we now have and the house we live in?”God gave us all faculties necessary for our physical life and it is up for us to make use of all, or only partially, of these. ...The saying goes “Life is what we make it” fits well to this point in regard to the choice of job and the house we live in. Does this not refer to our freedom of choice that NOBODY can control us as long as this is within the bounds of the laws, regulations, and ordinances of the government and its instrumentalities, of which God has entrusted man’s physical relationship with each other? We find this in:1 Pet 2:1...unquote:[/quote] fil3232003 &lt;bible talk@purechristianity.org&gt;  wrote: Did God take man’s free will that He hardened Pharaoh’s heart? Let God give us the clue for the answer to the question:..... &#61558; Did God choose or only knew Jeremiah before he was born?.... . &#61558; Is it God who chose us without our consent?.... It appears that God is only creating circumstances for people to decide or exercise their free will. All these are based on His foreknowledge. After all is not God omniscient? And this is quite hard to understand without God’s divine revelation that everything that happens is for His glory. unquote: GOD, we praise You from the questions and then of the Spiritual revelations that came about from brother steve,  sister sandra  and  brother fil  respectively. GOD, thanks much for enlightening us up again after a sort of deafening peace for the past days from the purechristianity. brothers porong, amang, tony, peter sisters chayong, mary       Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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Steve
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Posted: Dec 20, 2005 2:14:06 AM
Fil, Are you saying it is our free will that we are ordained to eternal life as it is written in Acts 13:48? "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." or is it God who ordains us? Romans 8:29-30 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Was it our free will that predestinated us to be conformed to the image of his Son? Ephesians 1:4-6 "according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved:" Verse 11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" It's all Him. He did all the work according to his purpose and His will. That's why He gets all the glory. We can't take any glory because He did it all. Back to Romans 9:19-21 "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?" I just can''t overlook Romans 9:11 (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)" Everything is according to His will and purpose. Whose will is greater than His? Great indeed is His mercy and grace. All glory to Him.
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fil3232003
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 20, 2005 6:24:30 AM
[color=darkblue]Bro Steve, My comments are in capital letters. Fil, Are you saying it is our free will that we are ordained to eternal life as it is written in Acts 13:48? "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." or is it God who ordains us? WITH GOD’S OMNISCIENCE, HE ONLY KNOWS WHAT WE WILL DO. BUT WE MAKE THE DECISION. IF GOD IS DECIDING FOR US, THEN WE DON’T HAVE FREE WILL ANYMORE. Romans 8:29-30 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Was it our free will that predestinated us to be conformed to the image of his Son? GOD ONLY KNOWS OUR STEPS BUT HE NEVER DICTATES ON US. Ephesians 1:4-6 "according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved:" Verse 11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" It's all Him. He did all the work according to his purpose and His will. That's why He gets all the glory. We can't take any glory because He did it all. WITH GOD’S FOREKNOWLEDGE, HE CREATES CIRCUMSTANCES FOR US TO DECIDE. I BELIEVE HE NEVER FORCES US AND I SUPPOSE ALL OF US FEEL AND EXPERIENCE THIS OURSELVES. Back to Romans 9:19-21 "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?" YES, GOD FINDS FAULTS IN US AND THIS IS THE EVIDENCE THAT HE ALLOWS US TO MAKE OUR DECISION -- PROOF FOR OUR FREE WILL. BUT WITH THE CIRCUMSTANCES BEFORE US, WE DECIDES ACCORDING TO THE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD. I just can't overlook Romans 9:11 (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)" Everything is according to His will and purpose. Whose will is greater than His? Great indeed is His mercy and grace. All glory to Him. THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. FOREKNOWLEDGE COMES BEFORE OUR FREE WILL. BUT GOD NEVER CONTROLS OUR MIND, FEELING, AND ACTION. THIS IS THE FREEDOM THAT I SUPPOSE EVERYBODY ENJOYS. [/color]
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adlemsot
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 20, 2005 3:16:10 PM
You're coming loud and clear time brother Fil. [b][i]fil3232003 &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i][/b] wrote: [quote]Bro Steve, My comments are in capital letters. Fil, Are you saying it is our free will that we are ordained to eternal life as it is written in Acts 13:48? "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." or is it God who ordains us? WITH GOD’S OMNISCIENCE, HE ONLY KNOWS WHAT WE WILL DO. BUT WE MAKE THE DECISION. IF GOD IS DECIDING FOR US, THEN WE DON’T HAVE FREE WILL ANYMORE. Romans 8:29-30 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Was it our free will that predestinated us to be conformed to the image of his Son? GOD ONLY KNOWS OUR STEPS BUT HE NEVER DICTATES ON US. Ephesians 1:4-6 "according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved:" Verse 11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" It's all Him. He did all the work according to his purpose and His will. That's why He gets all the glory. We can't take any glory because He did it all. WITH GOD’S FOREKNOWLEDGE, HE CREATES CIRCUMSTANCES FOR US TO DECIDE. I BELIEVE HE NEVER FORCES US AND I SUPPOSE ALL OF US FEEL AND EXPERIENCE THIS OURSELVES. Back to Romans 9:19-21 "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?" YES, GOD FINDS FAULTS IN US AND THIS IS THE EVIDENCE THAT HE ALLOWS US TO MAKE OUR DECISION -- PROOF FOR OUR FREE WILL. BUT WITH THE CIRCUMSTANCES BEFORE US, WE DECIDES ACCORDING TO THE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD. I just can't overlook Romans 9:11 (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)" Everything is according to His will and purpose. Whose will is greater than His? Great indeed is His mercy and grace. All glory to Him. THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. FOREKNOWLEDGE COMES BEFORE OUR FREE WILL. BUT GOD NEVER CONTROLS OUR MIND, FEELING, AND ACTION. THIS IS THE FREEDOM THAT I SUPPOSE EVERYBODY ENJOYS. [/quote] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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Steve
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Posted: Dec 20, 2005 10:18:52 PM
Out of the same lump of clay, [b]He makes [/b]one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor. Before we make any decisions, like Jacob and Esau, HE has made us either unto honor or dishonor. Isn't that true? The natural man is at war with God and doesn't want anything to do with God. The natural man cannot understand. That's why it is HIM who works in us both to will and to do of HIS good pleasure. He works all things after the counsel of HIS own will.
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ric32bailey
Joined Jul 21, 2005
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Posted: Dec 21, 2005 11:58:17 AM
Before, I also thought God was explicitly directing my path when I read the verses cited. Our Lord Jesus even said, “You did not choose me, I chose you.” But on deep reflection, I cannot deny that it is still I that make the decision in my life. I don’t feel God controlling me what to do. It is then that I realized He only knew what my decision would be. Because of this, He just created conditions or situation in my life for me to decide based on His foreknowledge, but I know I am still the one deciding. That is what I understand by “God has not deprived me of my free will.” I know I can do this, or I cannot, etc. I feel free to do anything. I don’t feel that God is controlling my mind. [quote:1a0a1c8b98="Steve"]Out of the same lump of clay, [b]He makes [/b]one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor. Before we make any decisions, like Jacob and Esau, HE has made us either unto honor or dishonor. Isn't that true? The natural man is at war with God and doesn't want anything to do with God. The natural man cannot understand. That's why it is HIM who works in us both to will and to do of HIS good pleasure. He works all things after the counsel of HIS own will.[/quote]
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Steve
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Posted: Dec 22, 2005 2:40:33 AM
Please permit me to point out several more scriptures. 1Samuel 25:26 “Now therefore, my lord, as the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, seeing [b]the LORD hath withholden thee from [/b]coming to shed blood, and from avenging thyself with thine own hand…” Had the LORD not withheld David, would blood have been shed? In 1Chronicles 17, David wanted to build a house for the ark of the covenant. Nathan the prophet said "Do all that is in thine heart; for God is with thee." but in verse 4 the LORD says "Go and tell David my servant, Thus saith the LORD, Thou shalt not build me a house to dwell in:" Wouldn't David had built a house for the ark of the covenant if the LORD hadn't intervened? Psalms 37:23 "[b]The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD[/b]: and he delighteth in his way." Psalms 47:4 "[b]He shall choose our inheritance for us[/b], the excellency of Jacob whom he loved." Psalms 65:4 "Blessed is the man whom [b]thou choosest[/b], [b]and causest [/b]to approach unto thee,.." Proverbs 20:24 "[b]Man's goings are of the LORD[/b]; how can a man then understand his own way?" Isaiah 26:12 "LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for [b]thou[/b] also [b]hast wrought all our works in us[/b]." Jeremiah 1:5 "[b]Before I formed thee [/b]in the belly [b]I knew thee[/b]; and [b]before thou camest forth [/b]out of the womb [b]I sanctified [/b][b]thee[/b], and [b]I ordained thee [/b]a prophet unto the nations." Romans 9:19 "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For [b]who hath resisted his will[/b]?" Jeremiah 18:5-6 "Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, O house of Israel, [b]cannot I do with you as this potter[/b]? saith the LORD. Behold, [b]as the clay is in the potter's hand[/b], [b]so are ye in mine [/b][b]hand[/b], O house of Israel." Does the clay determine what it is going to be into? Or does the potter decide? John 1:13 "which [b]were born[/b], not of blood, [b]nor of the will of the [/b][b]flesh[/b], [b]nor of the will of man[/b], [b]but of God[/b]." The sons of God were not born of their own will but of God. John 6:44 "[b]No man can come to me[/b], [b]except the Father [/b]which hath sent me [b]draw him[/b]: and I will raise him up at the last day." Ephesians 2:10 "For [b]we are his workmanship[/b], created in Christ Jesus unto good works, [b]which God hath before ordained that we should [/b][b]walk in them[/b]." James 1:18 "[b]Of his own will begat he us [/b]with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." His will, not our will. Jude 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, [b]who were before of [/b][b]old ordained to this condemnation[/b], ungodly men, turning the grace of our God..." Revelation 17:17 "For [b]God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will[/b], and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled." If man's goings were of his own will, wouldn't he be able to understand?
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sfchristian
Joined Nov 22, 2005
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Posted: Dec 22, 2005 8:33:19 AM
greetings from san francisco, california! i have a question regarding the following topic: Do we have freewill in our physical lives? i read several replies and postings regarding this topic and came across a response that we were given 'faculties' in order for us to decide what the best things are that we can do for our physical lives. i tried using my knowledge, seek advice from people, weigh possible outcomes, and say a small prayer that the Lord guide me with things that i have to do with a verse in mind that reads "....in all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy path." However, in most cases,no matter how i use my intellect with some knowledge derived from my education, readings, and solicited advices, i still fail in some aspects in life. what are the things we can do in addition to using the 'faculties' provided to us by the Lord in order for us not to only practice freewill but come up with the best possible results in our struggle in physical life?
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vdf
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 100

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Posted: Dec 22, 2005 9:27:52 PM
Steve, I suggest that we follow God's instruction in getting the message of his word... Isa:28:10: For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Quoting too many bible verses will not lead us to what God' want us to know... Remember.... 2Co:3:6: Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the [size=18][color=red]letter killeth[/color][/size], but the spirit giveth life.
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Steve_Jorns1
Joined Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 362

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Posted: Dec 23, 2005 1:34:11 AM
It is very difficult to understand how you can say this. Compared with the number of scriptures there are in His word, the scriptures I've quoted are very few. [quote] From:  [i]"vdf" &lt;bibletalk@purechristianity.org&gt;[/i] Reply-To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] To:  [i]bibletalk@purechristianity.org[/i] Subject:  [i]RE: Freewill in our Physical/Spiritual Lives[/i] Date:  [i]Thu, 22 Dec 2005 06:27:52 -0700[/i] [quote]Steve, I suggest that we follow God's instruction in getting the message of his word... Isa:28:10: For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Quoting too many bible verses will not lead us to what God' want us to know... [/quote] [/quote]
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Steve
Joined Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 74
Location:Chicago

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Posted: Dec 23, 2005 2:15:54 AM
vdf, I believe it is demonstration of [b]searching the Scriptures [/b]daily, whether those things were so.(Acts 17:11) As Apollos mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, [b]showing by the [/b][b]Scriptures[/b] that Jesus was Christ."(Acts 18:28) Was Apollos limited to a certain number of scriptures he could use to prove Jesus was Christ? After all it is written in 2Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Numbers 3:13 “because [b]all the firstborn are mine[/b]; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt [b]I hallowed unto me all [/b][b]the firstborn [/b]in Israel, both [b]man[/b] and beast: [b]mine they [/b][b]shall be[/b]: I am the LORD.” 2Samuel 7:8 “Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, [b]Thus saith the LORD of hosts[/b], [b]I took thee from [/b]the sheepcote, from following the sheep, [b]to be ruler [/b]over my people, over Israel:” Verse 21 “[b]For thy word’s sake[/b], and [b]according to thine own heart[/b], hast thou done all these great things, [b]to make [/b]thy servant know them.” Indeed, who hath resisted his will? All glory is His!
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